[dad604]

I don't like rebuys. In some rebuys, it is just a case of who has the most money to rebuy.

[mattyfatty4]

Originally Posted by ky70

It's time to put this to another vote. I'm strictly talking about tourney games here. Do you like rebuys? Why or why not?

Here's why I'm against them:
* I think the rebuy option decreases the overall quality of play. With a rebuy in their back pocket, the strategy for many would be to try and double up early and as a result, play will be more reckless
* I hate the idea of having to eliminate the same person more than once
* A player who's just holding his head above water but isn't low enough in chips to rebuy (depending on the threshold) is penalized for having average results while the people that had bad results can buy more chips and sometimes come back in with equal or more chips than the guy that's been grinding it out. I realize this may not be the set up with many rebuy formats but I know that it is with some.
*You lost all your chips so you don't deserve to be in this game any longer...the loser's side table is that way.

I hate Rebuys, they piss me off so much. I hate them for exactly the same reasons as you. The people I play with like them so I"m pretty much forced to play with them.

[whitepotatoe]

Rebuys and add-ons are good if done correctly. The problem is that they are usually done incorrectly. The purpose of them is to 1) increase the prize pool and 2) allow people who bust out early to continue playing rather than sit by themselves in the corner.

Now, if you do rebuys, you should always offer an add-on so that the all in fest does not occur. If you limit the number of rebuys and add-ons to 1 or 2 total (either 1 rebuy or 1 add-on OR any combination of two such as 2 rebuys, 1 of each, or 2 add-ons) then people who have more money are really not at an advantage. The trick is to make it so that the add-on is a better deal than the rebuy. A good setup is like this:

Maximum of two rebuys or add-ons
Buy in $20 - T1000
Rebuy $10 - T1000
Add-on $10 - T1500

This way, it makes sense to use both rebuys or add-ons so most people will pay $40 total, but the players who busted early are at a disadvantage to players who didn't bust. This stops people from playing like maniacs while it grows the prize pool.

[smoore]

oh god, it's over here too? I'm not going to bother to read any excuses in this thread, anyone who cares can just go read my post in the SAME THREAD AS THIS ONE in Contests and Tournaments.

[ky70]

Originally Posted by smoore

oh god, it's over here too? I'm not going to bother to read any excuses in this thread, anyone who cares can just go read my post in the SAME THREAD AS THIS ONE in Contests and Tournaments.

Calling someone's preference and excuse doesn't make much sense to me but to each his own.

I drive a car with an automatic transmission. I can drive a manual transmission car as well but I personally prefer to drive a car with an automatic trans. Some are the opposite and prefer to drive manual transmission cars. My point is that neither way is an excuse but simply a preference. And the poll here will show what the voters preference is with regard to tourney structure.

I understand why some people prefer rebuy tourneys and there rational makes since to me, but I would hope that we can have differences of opinion without them being labeled excuses.

[smoore]

Originally Posted by ky70

Calling someone's preference and excuse doesn't make much sense to me but to each his own.

I drive a car with an automatic transmission. I can drive a manual transmission car as well but I personally prefer to drive a car with an automatic trans. Some are the opposite and prefer to drive manual transmission cars. My point is that neither way is an excuse but simply a preference. And the poll here will show what the voters preference is with regard to tourney structure.

I understand why some people prefer rebuy tourneys and there rational makes since to me, but I would hope that we can have differences of opinion without them being labeled excuses.

Preference is one thing, but if someone says "rebuys favor the fish" it's an excuse or a rationalization for the own player's shortcomings. I honestly prefer the freezeout format because it complements my tight, conservative style. However, I recognized that there was more money to be made in a rebuy tournament so I learned how to play them. If all the sudden the fish wanted to switch over to some new poker game I would mostly abandon NLHE and tune my game to play whatever they wanted. This is the crux of being a card player.

The vote will reflect what people that give enough of a crap about this nittiness to actually vote want. I didn't.

And good god, I just went and read this whole thread and it's the same bitchfest that the other one is... so basically the focus of the "I hate rebuys" crowd is that they encourage bad play? This amazes me. Isn't bad play what we want? Yeah, the nasty grip of variance can be a ***** but I sure don't want to play against people that are either intentionally or accidentally playing anywhere close to an optimal strategy.

This is the last I'm going to say on the issue, unless someone wants to discuss the points I brought up in my other post on the challenge thread Meaner started. Sucks that this overflowed onto his "throwing down the gauntlet" thread.

[JustinHEMI04]

I don't like UNLIMITED rebuy games. I do like ONE rebuy games. I like having one rebuy incase something horrible happens. For example, at my game the other night, on the VERY first hand of the game, a guy gets AA and raises and some other guy goes all in and of course he calls. Its AA vs KK the KK hit a river K for the win. The AA was here for 5 minutes and busted out. That sucks. So I don't mind letting him buy back in. The problem with unlimited rebuy tourneys is that people dont play poker. They play the slots. It can be cool if you are trying to build a big pot. That is the down side of one rebuy or none. Can't really big the pot. You can make up for that though, with bigger buy ins.

Justin

[dimperdoo]

I voted for NO rebuys because I am heavier that way. The only way I think rebuys are acceptable (because they do build the pot) is if A. -the chips are valued at the face value of the buy B. -the rebuys are only allowed in the first round

this isn't exactly untread ground, but that's my 2 cents...

[smoore]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI04

The problem with unlimited rebuy tourneys is that people dont play poker. They play the slots.

Well, whatever. I guess if the opponents of rebuy tournaments are going to think this there is little I can do to change thier minds. I'm starting to think that changing this opinion would be -EV for me anyway so screw it.

If I sit in a "one rebuy" tournament I just take it right when I sit down or I play normally and take it at the break, there can be cases made for doing it either way. The only mistake would be to NOT take the rebuy. If it's a "one rebuy if you bust" tournament it's basically a freezeout with a saftey net so I could take one big chance early if I wanted (and then one more if I win it, one more... one more... etc). These are the reasons I don't like "limited rebuy" tournaments. If a good player gets a leg up on me I'm basically screwed unless I get lucky.

[ky70]

Originally Posted by smoore

And good god, I just went and read this whole thread and it's the same bitchfest that the other one is... so basically the focus of the "I hate rebuys" crowd is that they encourage bad play? This amazes me. Isn't bad play what we want? Yeah, the nasty grip of variance can be a ***** but I sure don't want to play against people that are either intentionally or accidentally playing anywhere close to an optimal strategy.

Here is where we greatly differ...NO I do not personally want bad play (in general) at my games and do not want a bunch of "fish" in my game. To that end, I share plenty of information with any players in my game so that they will have a resource to improve there game. I don't share everything but I do point players towards info and let them take it from there. I want competitive games with guys making wise decisions. I want to raise the level of play in my game and in the process raise my level of play...it's all about competition and getting better for me. With this mind, the whole fish argument in no way works for me. I'm not saying that I these things I look for can't be had with rebuy tourneys, but from my personal experiences with the quality of play with rebuys at MY game, I would not choose to add that wrinkle unless the players ask for it.