My 2 table tourney thought and suggestions

[Ivan Stravinski]

I run a monthly two table tourney. We play HOE so we don't use antes and It's NL Holdem and PL Omaha. This is a rebuy tourney for the fist 4 levels. We also do a add on for any player at or below 50 % of the starting stack. Add ons are not to complete to a starting stack just equal to 50 % of the starting stack. We start a 6PM with 2 scheduled breaks of 20 Minutes. This game usually runs until 12:30. I have three tables so when players bust out we start up a cash game for the players that want to play still. The cash game usually runs until 2-3 AM.

Staring stacks are 16K
10x100
10X500
10X1000

Levels are

100-100 15 min
100-200 15 min
200-400 15 min
300-600 15 min

Break to do add ons 5 min

400-800 20 min
500-1000 20 min
700-1500 20 min

Break 20 minutes color up all 100 chips
Figure pay outs and socialize over snacks my wife prepares

1000-2000 20 min
1500-3000 20 min
2000-4000 20 min

Break 20 minutes color up all 500 chips
Then it's on for the remainder of the tourney no breaks.

3000-6000 25 min
4000-8000 25 min
5000-10K 25 min
7000-15K 25 min
10K-20K 25 min
15K-30K remainder of the game usually over very soon.

I have been running this for about 5 years now. My players don't complain about it
so I haven't changed it. Now what do you guys think so I can get an unbiased opinion?

[Duckbutter48]

Usually the blind lengths are the exact opposite of what you have and the longer times are at the beginning and shorten as it goes butt....

"My players don't complain about it
so I haven't changed it."

I wouldnt fix what aint broke...Home tourneys take a very delicate balance and your set up may be hated by another group but if your group is happy with it and it seems to run good I wouldnt look to make changes.

[BGinGA]

Originally Posted by Ivan Stravinski

I have been running this for about 5 years now. My players don't complain about it
so I haven't changed it. Now what do you guys think so I can get an unbiased opinion?

First off, if everybody that plays in your event likes the structure, I'd be hesitant to change anything. That said, I do think there is room for some improvements.

A few things that caught my attention:

1. Having only 160 big blinds per starting stack is a bit small for a 6-hour tournament, especially if PLO is one of the games being played. Having both re-buys and add-ons available does offset this a bit, however. I'd rather see starting stacks = 200 big blinds, and drop the add-ons. Re-buys for busted players during the early rounds (1-2 hours max) is fine.

2. I dislike the wide range of blind increase percentages throughout the structure, especially in the earlier rounds. Your structure has a 44.4% increase over 16 rounds (which is okay), but the blind increases range from 25% to a whopping 100% (at 200/400). This could be more consistent throughout the structure. Simply adding a 100/300 round (between 100/200 and 200/400) would help a lot, and would drop the average blind increase to about 40% (an excellent target number) with a narrowed range of 25% to 50%.

3. I really think that having short opening round lengths followed by longer round lengths later in the tournament is exactly the opposite of the optimum tournament blind length strategy. Since a full table of players takes longer to play a hand than does a short table, fewer hands per hour can be played in the early rounds compared to the later rounds (when fewer players remain). This can be offset by having the early rounds last longer, and by shortening the later rounds when play is faster (resulting in playing the same number of hands per hour over the entire event, regardless of the length of the blind round).

4. You have scheduled two 20-minute breaks (at the end of the 2nd and 3rd hours), but then no more breaks for the duration of the tournament (about another three hours). This seems a little extreme to me; I'd schedule at least one 5-minute break every 1.5 hours.

5. I advise that you build an Excel spreadsheet to calculate the payouts, based on the number of players and re-buys. Simply plug in the numbers as you go, and no more worries about calculating payouts during the tournament. Contact me via PM if you need help with this.


If I were to make any changes, it would be these:

- Add a new blind round at 100/300.
- Change the starting stacks to = 20,000 (200 big blinds)
- Drop the add-ons
- Change the blind times (and breaks) to the following:

R1 - 100/100, 25 minutes
R2 - 100/200, 25 minutes
R3 - 100/300, 25 minutes
5-minute break (end of re-buy period), TT = 1:15
R4 - 200/400, 20 minutes
R5 - 300/600, 20 minutes
R6 - 400/800, 20 minutes
R7 - 500/1000, 20 minutes
R8 - 700/1500, 20 minutes
20-minute break (color-up T100 chips), TT = 2:55
R9 - 1000/2000, 20 minutes
R10 - 1500/3000, 20 minutes
R11 - 2000/4000, 20 minutes
R12 - 3000/6000, 20 minutes
20-minute break (color-up T500 chips), TT = 4:15
R13 - 4000/8000, 20 minutes
R14 - 5000/10000, 20 minutes
R15 - 7000/15000, 20 minutes
R16 - 10000/20000, 15 minutes
R17 - 15000/30000, 15 minutes
R18 - 20000/40000, 15 minutes
Event should end between R17 and R18 (approximately 6 hours plus breaks)

I think these changes will result in the tournament lasting about the same length of time, but provide a more enjoyable experience for more of the players. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[Ivan Stravinski]

I like the changes you suggested. One thing I believe is that poker is constantly evolving. I do on occasion make changes to the tourney. I will try this way next game. My players have always been receptive to changes and at least are willing to try them. We have done somethings that failed and then we just reverted back. We did bounties for a few weeks it was a $5 chip you would purchase when you took a player out you got their chip redeemable for the $5 after you were busted. Or not if you won or chopped. This worked fine for 2 weeks until we had a disagreement on a re-buy. One player felt he should not have to buy another bounty chip when he re-bought others felt he should so I just decided that the bounty program wasn't worth the problems and dropped them. Have you guys dealt with this issue before and if so how did you deal with it?

[Ivan Stravinski]

Another thought how about adding a 25 chip early? I have heard some people that don't like more that 3 colors going at any given time. I don't really agree with their theory but anyway....

[BGinGA]

Originally Posted by Ivan Stravinski

We did bounties for a few weeks it was a $5 chip you would purchase when you took a player out you got their chip redeemable for the $5 after you were busted. Or not if you won or chopped. This worked fine for 2 weeks until we had a disagreement on a re-buy. One player felt he should not have to buy another bounty chip when he re-bought others felt he should so I just decided that the bounty program wasn't worth the problems and dropped them. Have you guys dealt with this issue before and if so how did you deal with it?

I have run bounty tournaments both ways.

We currently run tournaments where the entry fee (and re-buy fee) include the $5 bounty chip. You get knocked out, you lose your bounty chip. You re-buy, you get another.

We have also ran bounty tournaments where a player only buys one initial bounty chip (in some events, this was an optional purchase). You only lost your bounty chip when you busted out for good (no re-buy). In the case of the optional bounty chip, you only lost your bounty chip when you busted out for good and were taken out by another bounty player. If somebody busted you but didn't have a bounty chip of their own, you got to keep yours (and redeem it for cash).

Imo, the first way works better with re-buys -- every stack (initial or re-buy) comes with a bounty chip. You lose the stack, you lose the bounty chip. And if everything is known up front, no arguments later.

[BGinGA]

Originally Posted by Ivan Stravinski

Another thought how about adding a 25 chip early? I have heard some people that don't like more that 3 colors going at any given time. I don't really agree with their theory but anyway....

I prefer using T25 chips, as it gives you a lot more flexibility when designing the early rounds in a blind structure (50/100, 150/300, etc.). I also prefer to have only three denominations on the table at any one time, but this isn't always possible (depending upon the breakdown of your chip set and the number and size of the starting stacks).

I certainly never have more than four denoms in play at one time in my events, which seems to work out just fine. T5000 chips are not introduced until after the T25 chips are removed, and T25K chips (if needed) are not introduced until after the T100 chips are gone.

[Ivan Stravinski]

OK how about this I just checked my chips supplies I can do 20 players with
400 in 25's
1100 in 100's
5500 in 500's
10000 in 1000's
Total of 17,000 starting chips

Then instead of
100-100 we do 25-50
then we do 50-100
then 100-200
then 150-300 instead of 100-300


What do you think of that? That would put more chips in play and smaller jumps in the earlier rounds.

[BGinGA]

Originally Posted by Ivan Stravinski

OK how about this I just checked my chips supplies I can do 20 players with
400 in 25's
1100 in 100's
5500 in 500's
10000 in 1000's
Total of 17,000 starting chips

Then instead of
100-100 we do 25-50
then we do 50-100
then 100-200
then 150-300 instead of 100-300

What do you think of that? That would put more chips in play and smaller jumps in the earlier rounds.

If you can introduce T25 chips (and bump starting stacks to 17K), I much prefer using the blind structure below. I have used this structure extensively for 2-table re-buy tournaments (once a month since 2005), and it works really well. Blinds start at 50/100, blind increases average 40%, and all blind increases are between 33%-50% -- it is a very consistent structure from round to round:

R1 - 50/100, 25 minutes
R2 - 75/150, 25 minutes
R3 - 100/200, 25 minutes
R4 - 150/300, 25 minutes
20-minute break (re-buy ends, color-up T25 chips), TT = 1:40
R5 - 200/400, 20 minutes
R6 - 300/600, 20 minutes
R7 - 400/800, 20 minutes
R8 - 600/1200, 20 minutes
R9 - 800/1600, 20 minutes
R10 - 1100/2200, 20 minutes
R11 - 1500/3000, 20 minutes
20-minute break (color-up T100 and T500 chips), TT = 4:00
R12 - 2000/4000, 20 minutes
R13 - 3000/6000, 20 minutes
R14 - 4000/8000, 20 minutes
R15 - 6000/12000, 20 minutes
R16 - 8000/16000, 20 minutes
R17 - 11000/22000, 20 minutes
20-minute break (color-up T1000 chips if desired), TT = 6:00
R18 - 15000/30000, 15 minutes
R19 - 20000/40000, 15 minutes
R20 - 30000/60000, 15 minutes
R21 - 40000/80000, 15 minutes

With 17K starting stacks and 20 players plus re-buys, the event should end somewhere between R16 and R17, or just under 6 hours (plus breaks).

I would not include a 25/50 round, just to avoid the 100% jump from 25/50 to 50/100. Having 170 big blinds to start with this structure should be plenty.


One of the nice things about this balanced and predictable structure is that you can tailor an event to last however long you want, by altering the starting stack size and/or the blind round lengths.

For example, a two-table event with 10K starting stacks (no re-buys) and:
15-minute rounds will last about 3.5 hours,
20-minute rounds will last about 5.0 hours,
25-minute rounds will last about 6.0 hours,
30-minute rounds will last about 7.5 hours.

For a two-table event with 20K starting stacks (no re-buys) and:
15-minute rounds will last about 4.0 hours,
20-minute rounds will last about 5.5 hours,
25-minute rounds will last about 7.0 hours,
30-minute rounds will last about 8.0 hours.

Best of luck, whatever changes you decide to make (if any!). Hope to see a report back if you do.