[CK15c]

Hey guys. This week marks the first week of a series of free bar tournaments that I will be running. I have 5400 Faux Clays, so I can accommodate 100 players easy, VIVA FAUX CLAY!!! Anyways, to my questions:

This will be a free-roll as per state laws, but I'd like everyone to be able to play and not be forced to move all-in on a whim. I've setup a blind structure to try and make it last 3-4 hours so that people can maybe have a drink during the 10 minute breaks every hour (after all, we are trying to get people to buy stuff while they're here). But just today, I started second guessing what structure I should use. Here's what I have for reference:

T1500 - 20 Minute Rounds
5/10
10/20
15/30 - 10 Minute Break, Remove Red 5's
25/50
50/100
75/150 - 10 Minute Break, Remove Green 25's
100/200
200/400
300/600 - 5 or 10 Minute Break
400/800
600/1200
800/1600 - 10 Minute Break, Remove Black 100's
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
5000/10000

I figure I'd cap the blinds when the tournament M is around 10 to increase play.

The other structure

T4000 - 20 Minute Rounds
25/50
50/100
75/150 - 10 minute Break, Remove Green 25's
100/200
200/400
300/600 - 5 or 10 Minute Break
400/800
600/1200
800/1600 - 10 Minute Break, Remove Black 100's
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000
6000/12000
8000/16000
10000/20000

Very similar structures, the length of the breaks are determined by how long it takes me to go around and color-up chips while the patrons relax, use restrooms, or get drinks, whatever. I'm anticipating from 20-40 players for the first night, but it could be more, it could be less. I'm ready for up to 100, complete with 10 setups of plastic cards I bought for cheap. I'm really looking forward to this, but I'm debating which structure I should use. The biggest reason I bring up the T4000, is that I can set that one up before I even go there, as I'd give out 8x25, 8x100, 2x500 and 2x1000 for 20 chips.... This fits nicely into the chip racks! Otherwise for T1500 I'm going with 10x5, 10x25, 7x100 and 1x500 for 28 chips. This would mean I'd have to count out the chips for every player at the tournament site. Not terrible, but could be time consuming.

I put all this data into a spreadsheet, for a side-by-side comparison. It seems as though there's less play in the T4000 in the early rounds, but later on it evens out. i've attached the spreadsheet if anyone cares. It has the M calculation, and an estimation of where I would cap the blinds based on a number of players.

So what do you guys think? Which structure would be better, for both the players and I? (I'm not playing, just running the tourney) Thanks for reading!

[tomb1]

Those are both very close, of course. You probably can't go wrong with either one. I think it comes down to some other factors, and only you can decide that, based on some input from the patrons too.

1. Size of starting stack. A 20-stack is OK, but some people might think they are getting more for their (free) money with a slightly larger stack.

2. Your convenience in set up.

Originally Posted by CK15c

The biggest reason I bring up the T4000, is that I can set that one up before I even go there, as I'd give out 8x25, 8x100, 2x500 and 2x1000 for 20 chips.... This fits nicely into the chip racks! Otherwise for T1500 I'm going with 10x5, 10x25, 7x100 and 1x500 for 28 chips. This would mean I'd have to count out the chips for every player at the tournament site. Not terrible, but could be time consuming.

Sure the 20s fit nicely in racks. That makes things go easier. But you could also use baggies to set up the 28-stacks, or maybe just 30-40 baggies and not all the way to 100. A pub tourney we play at does this. It's not as convenient to carry, but not bad.

3. Familiarity for the players. If most of your patrons play online, they probably start with T1,500 and something like your blind schedule. Would that be important to them? OTOH, having more money on the table makes people feel better when they can make bigger bets.

Finally, you might have some trouble getting this done in 3-4 hours. It depends on how wild your patrons are going to be. But try it once and see what happens. You can always crank up the blinds arbitrarily after 2-3 hours if you have too many players left.

Good luck, sounds like fun!

[CK15c]

Thanks for the input! I think I've pretty much decided on the T4000 structure. I've been to three places that have poker in bars. One has almost the same as my T4000, only it's a T2000, but faster blind structure, one has a T300 with 5/10 starting blinds, one of my least favourites as there's very little play, and another which I'd never play, but only heard about they use some cheap 7.2g suited chips, every chip is valued at 1, everyone starts with 20 chips, and blinds double everytime someone is knocked out! Absolutley terrible!

When I first heard about my place of employment wanting to run tournaments, I jumped at the chance to try and change the path everyone was on. They're used to throw all the chips in and hope for the best (they were suited, I had to see the flop! lol). I want to change that. I don't care if they still want to do that, but with some better players perhaps, they'll get less action on their money and maybe learn a little bit. This is a free tournament, and I have absolute control in how it's run. I want to run it right, otherwise, it could sprial off into the wrong direction, and I may never get it back. This is my chance, lol. I don't want to give them what they've always had, a luckfest, I want to give them the chance to play, really play! First tournament is tomorrow night, and I've been looking forward to it for about a month now!

If anyone happens to be in the area, it's at 6:00 PM at the Village Lanes in Superior, WI, 6419 Tower Ave. It'll be every Thursday night except the 14th of June until the end of August. I doubt anyone's around here, but if they are, stop on by!

[Big Mike]

I agree the T4000 is the way to go. Whenever I run a tourney it's T5000, basically the same thing.
I just prefer the smallest chip be T25 in a tournament.

[jwdeane]

*** I am not saying this is the best option ***

The company that runs the bar tournaments around here (riverchasers.com) uses this setup.

Starting Stack:
White: T1 x 5
Red: T5 x 3
Blue: T10 x 3
Green: T50 x 1
= T100

Black: T100 (do not start with any)

Blinds:
1/2
2/4
3/6
4/8
5/10 (color out whites)
10/20 (color out reds)
20/40
40/80
50/100 (smaller games stop here + color out blues)
100/200 (larger games stop here)

I am not saying this is the best solution, it is just how it is done. The one advantage is that players only have 12 chips to start, so it makes setting up easier. The disadvantage is that you have to make change all the time, because of the small amount of T1 chips in play.

[the3rd]

I've played riverchasers. This is the absolute worst chip structure EVAR! It slows the game down so much your players will not want to return. Most of my friends and I have not. I've helped set-up and chip-up for bar tournaments. Do not use baggies nor chips cases nor carousels. If you have racks, use them. They will make things go more smoothly. Your T4000 is the way to go. Also use two decks per table if you can.

Don't count on changing any person's free poker tendencies. You could give them 10000 in chips and you'll still have all-ins in the first level. Also, what prizes and/or points are you awarding? This is a key to getting players to return.

[CK15c]

I have 60 racks, so I won't run out there I looked at that riverchasers thing and it doesn't look too appealing to me. I have many decks of plastic cards. I bought like 36 decks from some guy off e-bay. While many cards were marked in some way (manufacturing defect as they were all sealed like new), I was able to sift through them and find 10 good setups (a red deck and a blue deck). I figure the decks that aren't good would work well for single card replacements.

As for points and such. I have it setup to where the top finishers will receive points based on the number of players that show up (I don't belive that someone who finishes 8th in a tournament of 9 doesn't deserve the same points as someone who finishes 8th in a tournament of 40). A player will also receive some participation points just for showing up, like equal to a 9th or 10th place finish. I was thinking we'd have a regular season type thing for points accumulation (and event prizes), and have a Tournament of Champions event on the last night. Have the top 7 in points earn a spot, and the week before the ToC, have a shootout type tournament (or just something), as a last chance qualifier. The highest player not already in the ToC will earn a spot. Eight players in the ToC. But this is a few months away, so I can still alter or scrap this idea. For the event prizes, I'm not sure what the proprietor is going to give away. I suggested gift certificates, but he kept saying cash. Cool, I guess. It's all up to him, I'm just doing the points and general running of the tournaments.

So we'll see how everything turns out. I'll be sure to let you guys know all the details, but I doubt pictures will be possible. I'm definately going T4000 now, as I went and setup all the chips into the starting stacks (100 stacks ready, lol).

[UsIreland]

One suggestion. If you want to add more play to the T4000 game, add a 150-300 level to your game, it removed the double up from 100-200 to 200-400 so you double every second level not every level. I know it messes with your breaks and colour up's a little but not too much. If you want to add even more play add a 250-500 level (good players will love you) but thats alot of extra play in there and your tourney will run much longer.

[CK15c]

Tonight was the first night of a weekly series of tournaments. I'd say it went very well. I went with the T4000 for a number of reasons and I now know it was the right choice. The tables we have to play on are VERY narrow, and adding 8 more chips per player would have probably been a mistake.

We only had 8 players, but word of mouth is spreading, and I'm anticipating probably 2 tables at least, if not 3. I'd say for a first night, 8 was probably perfect. Everyone had to learn some of the procedures such as the shuffle behind the button with the second deck, the chip race procedure and the dead button rule. Now I'm hoping that these players will be back next week and helping players who may be unfamiliar with some of these procedures.

One thing came up that I hope I made the right decision with. Seeing as how I wanted to maintain a certain level of play, when it went heads-up in the 300/600 round, I offered to the players we could keep going the normal scheduled blinds, or we could go to 500/1000, color the black chips and not raise the blinds anymore. They went with the second option and I think it was good. There were 42 chips on the table at that point, but if we leave the blacks on the table, there's 112 chips on the narrow table. (10x100, 16x500, 16x1000 all multiplied by 8 players). While I'm not sure I should have accelerated the blinds like this, I feel it was alright given the circumstances. They played heads-up for about half an hour before a winner was determined. A few questions:

1. Have you ever altered the blind structure in this manner?
2. Should I have continued the normal progression? I had planned to cap it out at 1000/2000 but figured it wouldn't get there. (32000 chips in play, is this a good cap?) It would've made it to about 600/1200 if it finished around the same time.

Overall, there was plenty of play, we hung out after and I talked with some of the players. Everyone seemed to have a good time, and the two players who were heads-up really enjoyed the structure! We talked about other structures around and we kept getting back to the fact that in those games people are just driven by action. The final two were playing "poker." I couldn't agree more!

[Big Mike]

I've never altered the blinds like that, but it's not a bad idea.

Doing so will make the tournament result more based on skill, and less on luck. The only problem is that that will give an advantage to the more skillful player - who would know that keeping the blinds even would benefit him. The less skilled player would think it's a good idea, not knowing that he's likely blowing his only chance to win the tournament. I would only do it if it were stated before the tournament that it would/could happen.