[smoore]

Originally Posted by My ramblings

The Step System

This is a satellite system intended to allow you to qualify for a large buy-in tournament with as little as a $2 investment. There are two “steps” which culminate in one person winning a $100 buy in. These steps are intended to be run “on the side” at larger tournaments or as multiple smaller tournaments over the course of an evening. The “main event” will be held quarterly. If there is enough demand, a monthly tournament would be arranged. A formal club will be comprised of elected volunteers in order to keep the money safe and everything on the up-and-up. Everyone wanting to participate need not be a member, the club is an entitiy to handle prize pools, nothing more. The money will be kept in a savings account with only the Treasurer having access. All interest is kept by the club to augment donations.

The group should encourage “side games” at anyone's house to enter these steps. Step 2 chips and TEC (Tournament entry chips) can be purchased ahead of time by any member of the club. People can buy directly in to Step 2 tournaments as much as they like, a group of players might decide that the Step 1 is a waste of time and they just want to play for the TEC. This should also be encouraged.

People can determine whatever side games they want to do to qualify, two could put up $50 each and flip a coin for it if they wanted. Extra wacky contests may even get people to sponsor them, ala “I dare you to drink this hotsauce.” I can't wait for the first group of young guys to put up $20 each and have a footrace for the TEC. The following tournaments are suggestions but one thing remains absolute, TECs cost $100 and Step 2s cost $16.

As the idea of this is to generate a large prize pool for a large buyin tournament, the club will not be in the habit of refunding entry fees. Exceptions can be made for extraordinary circumstances (baby needs food) but lets try to keep it growing. Members are free to sell the chip (or any extras) to any other member for any price negotiated. Members are allowed to stake friends with TECs if they like for any deal the two wish to work out... collusion, soft playing or chip dumping WILL NOT BE TOLERATED and may be punished by a swift kick in the nuts.

Suggestions:

Step 1:
Run time: less than two hours
8-10 players
$2 buy-in
1st: Step 2 entry ($16.00)
2nd: Any remaining cash

Chip stack:
15 @ $0.05 = $0.75
5 @ $0.25 = $1.25

Use 14 @ $0.25 + 4 @ $1.00 to color up the nickels

total chips needed: 218

Blinds:




Savvy players will notice that these Step 1 tournaments are pretty much turkey shoots. Whaddya want for $2? Push early, push often people! You can play another one as soon as everyone busts out!

Step 2:
Run time: three hours or so
8-10 players
$16 buy-in

8 players:
1st: TEC
2nd: Step 2 + $12.00

9 players:
1st: TEC
2nd: Step 2 + $12.00
3rd: Step 2

10 Players:
1st: TEC
2nd: Step 2 + $20.00
3rd: Step 2 + $8.00

Chipstack:
12 @ $0.25 = $3.00
8 @ $1.00 = $8.00
1 @ $5.00

Use 20 @ $1.00 and 2 @ $5.00 to color greens

Blind Schedule:


These are much less of turkey shoots because of the entry refunded to second place (and third if enough players). With enough chips and tables, a group of 24 players should be able to host 7 or more of these in a night

Flame on! it's just a rough draft so a lot of the language is incorrect, such as the use of "Members" opening paragraphs.

[Captn_All_In]

Just for clarity: this entire post is not a flame in anyway! I am hoping that by working it out with you I can establish something like this in my area!

Hey smoore, I really like this idea. It does need some further explanation (like what happens after the step 2 tournies- provide structure, chip stack etc.)

Also with the step 2 tournies I would maybe only offer the winner the TEC and then the rest straight cash instead of a Step 2 Entry. (Capt Addressed this in the post below. I am at work and had to actually do some work. Sorry)

They could use this cash and enter another or keep it. Have you thought about time lines for these tournies? Like how long would you offer the Step 1, then Step 2? If would be difficult to organize the Step 3 tourney if your still running Step1 a week before the actual event.

Also could a winner of a Step 3 tourney who already has a TEC chip get into another step 2 tourney? Also what if he wins the second tourney? Does he get a second TEC or just take the cash equivalent? Could he sell it?

Would the Step 3 Tourney have a limited number of buy ins?

[CaptLego]

That's a pretty interesting system.
I guess the goal is to play something similar to a large rebuy tournament, but have it stretch out over a quarter or so.

One potential glitch is where you award Step2 prizes on Step2 events. When the main event fires off, some people could be sitting on Step2 entry prizes. Presumably, there will be a new Step2 event in the next quarter, but will the prize money corresponding to that new Step2 event be carried over into the next quarter, or will it be awarded in the current main event? (Just some bookkeeping to consider.)

At any rate -- this provides an excuse to order some new specialty chips, the "TEC" !!

[smoore]

good points guys. By the way, I got this idea from LotteryLarry's post over on 2+2->home poker.

re structure for main event: use your favorite deepstack touanrment structure. I'm thinking a T10000 25/50 starting blinds. I designed these sats to use my nexgen set in particular and anyone's cash set in general for "unofficial" tournies. This ensures that rat-holing satellite chips doesn't give the cheater any advantage in the main event.

re multiple TECs: yes,you can win TECs to sell to others, stake horses, whatever. The main event is a freezeout so multiple TECs won't give an advantage there.

re "extra" satellite money: It would stay in the club's treasury. (these are reasons why I posted this idea for peer review).

re giving cash for second and third in step 2: Easy to do but one of my big ideas here is to KEEP the money within a prize pool, ensuring the main events are as large as possible. I don't see anyone around here straight buying into a $100 tournament.

I need to look into creating a registered "club" or "fraternal organization". Anyone who knows anything about this, please SPEAK UP. I'm clueless. If we elect the officers and have everyone accountable I think the general player population will be much more confident in letting the club hold the money. I figure an officer of the club can have extra cash with them to make the change for step2s. These people will be able to freely "sell" the extra step2 chips back to the club to recoup thier cash.

There is always the option, as the main event draws near, to have a short step 2. Say 4 guys are willing to put up some combination of 2 step 2s or $32 cash... they can play a shorthanded tournament to qualify someone. I want this to be a loose enough structure so that 5 guys can get together the night before the main event and each put up $20 in whatever contest they desire to qualify one of them. The only absolutes are the value of step 2 and TECs. Trusted officers of the club will "sign out" TECs and keep them secure... if someone wants to hold a qualifier on the spur of the moment they can simply call down the list of officers until they find someone available to exchange a TEC for the cash. We're a pretty small community and this shouldn't be a problem.

Obviously the ultimate in accountability and security would be step2s and TECs with serial numbers on them but I doubt if economics will allow that. I sent a PM to nj.net to see if I could even get a small amount of secure chips. One thought of serial numbers is to buy the chips then take them to someone local to have (an unfortunately ugly) number stamped or hotstamped into them.

Keep 'em comin'! Satellites and super satellites are what made tournament poker explode in the 70's and I think they can do the same thing for the home-poker "movement" of the 'oughts.

edit: *if* a local business can get a consistent serial number onto the chips I could always do a two-sided ceramic design with some blank area that's obviously designed for the serial number, thus negating *some* of the ugly factor.

edit again: Oh yeah... there could be a bounty in the main event too... smaller payouts in the step2s and mo' action at the event, which is going to feel like a HUGE tournament for these players the first few times.

[smoore]

Thoughts of the club structure:

President: Keeps TECs, keeps register of who gets which serial number.
Treasurer: Keeps bank account, accepts money from president, pays TECs at main event. Pays other officers for step2's and unused TECs.
Secretary: All that tedious record-keeping of who busted when and by whom at the event.
Sgt at Arms: Collects TEC, notes serial number and person cashing at main event.
Leutenants: Hosts. acts as TD, collects prize pools, pays president for TECs and step 2s. Can freely sell TECs and Step2s back.

The above officers have to be members of the club. Players do not have to join. There are no dues. Donations are accepted (I think... legality?). If the club uses member's property, there's no real reason to have $. A little interest will build up eventually for things like pencils and envelopes and such.

Club supplies TECs in printed envelopes of a pre-specified breakdown. All in/out is accounted right on the envelope. Basically, the officers would "check out" an envelope of 2 TECs and an envelope of 5 Step2's. They are expected to return the envelopes with $200 and $80, respectively. At that point they can "check out" another envelope. The most any one person (except the treasurer) can burn the club for is $280. Because it's a real non-profit, all volunteer club, the police can be contacted safely if some moron does take money. I'm going to take this whole plan down to the court before I order anything. The most trusted person is the Treasurer, he can take it all and run if he likes. Would it be unfair to require that this person be a property owner (i.e. not a renter)? We have a pretty high turnover in our podunk redneck mountain town.

Everyone gets together to reconcile the books in monthly meetings and once in the days prior to the main event. Club meetings SHALL have a qualifying tournament! Violation of this rule will bring you ridicule and shame. Officers get to main event X minutes early in order to do a final reconcilation and draw straws to see who has to be TD for the event.

Too insecure? Too complicated? Lets hear it!

[SpaceMonkey]

I like the idea of satellites, and have been toying around with the idea for some time. But I'd think you'd need a TON of regular players to really get it off the ground, and running (semi)consistantly.

I only have about 14-16 regulars, and only get b/t 6-12 people every other week. I'd like to have one for my annual T10,000 25/50 tournament, but it would have to be a side event during a regular night, so it just won't fly with my small group.

Overall, you're off to a great start. Nothing for me to really critique at this point.

[Captn_All_In]

I am with space here, you would need a really large group to pull this off...100+? Or you would have to run these smaller tournies for a major part of the year. Also I have no clue about legal issues, but I am thinking that you need to look into it. And get an accountant to keep track of all of those small buyins-cash-in/outs at a lot of houses.

Now if you really wanted to make it work I would make the host pay for the TEC chips in advance. That way your guaranteed to get the money. I would also look into getting a very secure chip for you TEC, however ugly it might be a custom hotstamp would be the way to go. Definitely cheaper than a true custom chip, and you could even put it on a really cheap chip- like a soprano or something.

I got more questions rolling in my head, but I am getting tired. I will ask them tomorrow when they clear up.

[CaptLego]

Originally Posted by smoore

Thoughts of the club structure:

... yada yada ...

Too insecure? Too complicated? Lets hear it!

The quoted part is about as much as I was able to read
Somehow, my eyes just start to glaze over when I read about structure and procedures. Do you really need that much bureaucracy? I suppose if you have lots of players and lots of money involved, it's worth thinking this through, but I'd be inclined to just find a single person I trusted and let him handle the money and TEC chips. I don't see why you need clubs, directors, meetings, officers, bylaws, serial numbers, procedures...

[smoore]

re player pool: yeah, that's the sticking point BUT I have friends of friends that spread games... everyone seems to be stuck at $20-$50 buyin tournaments and tops out at $1/2 NLHE. Some players at all of these games are chomping at the bit to play for "real money".

re complication of bureaucracy: Yeah, it's complicated but I'm thinking that it's not just a core group of friends that play together all the time. In this situation I think a bureaucracy is best because it gives any new players or sub-group the assurance that this isn't just some scam to get their $100. I'd love to have 50 player $100 tournaments: "Hey dude... my cousin plays in a $100 quarterly event they have all set up for satellites and stuff... AND it's like more than one dude so I don't think the're going to rip us off... here's their stuff, we should have a satellite." "OK, call them!"

re security of chips: I like NJ.net's pricing and I'm thinking a two sided design with a blank space on one side to engrave a serial number. I just asked nj.net if the've had experience with engraving and if so, "Who?" If they don't have any experience I'll probably take a couple of my extra beauties to a local engraver with a mockup of my art and say, "make this happen" to see if I can expect consistent results.

re accountant: As long as people are responsible checking them out and in it's self-accounting, no harder than balancing a checkbook. Certainly easier than managing an unlimited rebuy tourney.

edit: oh yeah! I had a thought, the Step2s can either be kept by the participant when using his TEC... *or* they can be "cashed in" for T$1000 for every Step2, up to a maximum of T$X,000. The $16 would be put into the prize pool (nothing for bounty). As saavy people will notice, the person doing this is losing EV because T$1000 in chips is only worth $9 or $10 (depending on if it's $90+$10 or just $100 freezeout). Whether or not turning in five Step2's to gain 50% of a chipstack will help is something best left to real math geeks.