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Will It Split? (or the ASM spot color-split chart) - by AlbinoDragon

Discussion in 'Product Testing' started by AlbinoDragon, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. AlbinoDragon

    AlbinoDragon Well-Known Member
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    With the increase in the number of split spots being noticed on ASM chips in recent months, I took it upon myself to go through the fantastic archive of images of ASM chips here on Chiptalk to see if could find the most likely color combinations to result in split spots. Here’s what I did and what I was looking for.

    To begin, I decided to start with chips posted in the custom chip gallery after the first of the year, 2007. This was partially an arbitrary date. There was intent with this date as it represents a well defined cut-on date as well as a date when a variety of spot options had been opened up Chiptalkers. The last date for which I looked was November 1st, 2008... a span of nearly two years.

    Second, I intentionally looked at chips that only used 214, 2A14, 314, 3AT14, 414, 4A14, 614, 6A14, 212, 2A12. 312, 3AT12, 412 or 4A12 spots. I did not use any double spot chips as I wanted to reduce the number of variables in the study. (I didn’t want to try to distinguish the differences between a yellow 3D14 gray/purple chip vs. a yellow 3D14 gray/black chip!!)

    Third, I did not make an effort to study the effects of the different molds on splitting. With seven molds to look at (Horsehead, H-mold, A-mold, Hourglass, Circle Square, Roman and Fleur de Lis), this would have really complicated the study. In short, I can say that the hourglass appears to be the mold most likely to cause splitting while the H mold is probably the least likely. Two of the molds listed here (Roman and FDL) have photos in the gallery but are officially “retired” by ASM. A third mold (Circle Square) appears to now be reserved for solids by ASM.

    Fourth, there are color combinations that I am certain exist, but I have not included in the summary simply because the colors used were not listed in the post with the photos. I wasn’t about to make guesses out of fear that I might get them wrong.

    Without further ado, here is the chart.

    [​IMG]

    The colors listed along the left edge (the Y axis) are the base colors. The colors along the top (the X axis) are the spot colors. You will notice that a base color when matched to the same color as a spot is blacked out, for what I hope is a pretty obvious reason! As an example, a mandarin red base with a white spot is colored green while a white base with a mandarin red spot is colored orange.

    Each square with a color pair (base and spot) has been filled with a different color. For starters, any space that is white (or more specifically hasn’t been colored) represents a case where I did not find an example in the gallery with those colors. A green fill shows a case that for all intents and purposes didn’t show the spot being split by the base color. There may be case here and there with a split spot, but it is very rare). A yellow fill is a case where, on rare occasion, the spot has been split by the base color. Orange fills are cases where splitting of the spot by the base happens occasionally, potentially enough to be a nuisance to some, and red fills are cases where spot splitting is extremely common.

    Now for a few generalizations. White as a base is very frequently problematic. Black as a spot is also highly likely to cause problems (I know this well with nearly half of my yellow 412 black spot chips showing splits). While there are relatively few examples of day-glo base colors, it is apparent by looking at the chart that you are treading a fine line to split spots if you choose to go that route. ASM has humored us with requests for day-glo base colors, but the split spots may be part of the reason they have been reluctant in the past to do this.

    As of November 1st, 2008, there has only been one set posted that used the new Chiptalk exclusive Light Blue in anything other than a solid color chip. It's apparent from the one example that as a base color, it will do bad things to spots, especially if they are darker colors. For the time being I have refrained from adding light blue to the chart simply because there aren't enough sets that use it either as a base or a spot color to know larger trends. As more sets come in that use light blue, I will add the appropriate columns to the chart.

    The Hourglass mold, while having a great texture as well as a nice, neutral design, appears to be causing the greatest problems with spot splitting. There have been comments in many of the posts to the effect that ASM must have changed things and that their quality control has fallen. It appears that these comments are in threads that show chips with the (rather new) Hourglass mold. I think this should serve as a buyer beware that the ART of making compression clay chips (NOT SCIENCE) has the potential to cause issues. It would appear that if you really do not care for split or otherwise misshapen spots you should be more careful with your mold selection as well as your color choices.

    As a side note to the previous paragraph, as well as comments from other Chiptalkers (and as a little piece of defense for ASM), ASM is NOT the only company producing compression clay chips to experience this problem. Photos showing split BCC spots as well as (gasp) Paulson do exist. It has been guessed by others that a combination of materials as well as the pressure and temperature differences between the companies may have a bearing on the chips from ASM being more prone to split spots. My feeling it that it is these differences, in combination with the molds in use, that ultimately causes split spots.

    I have compiled this chart and the associated description from my examination of the very large number of high quality photos that Chiptalk members have posted to the site. Without that fantastic resource, this would not have been possible. The list is too long to put here, but if you have posted photos and provided your color and spot combinations, odds are I used those photos to compile this chart. For “sharing the love”, I thank you! I suspect other Chiptalkers will also thank you when they use this chart and the other information here to pick their colors.

    Have fun selecting, designing and ultimately enjoying your chips when they arrive. May you win big with them!!




    As a disclaimer, I provide this chart to make the information on what colors are likely to split easier to access. I do not (and cannot) guarantee that your spots will or will not split. That’s up to whatever the chip pixies decide to do when your chip is being pressed under tons of pressure and the heat of the moment. All this chart shows are those ASM colors that have historically shown if they have the tendency to split during the pressing process.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008
  2. Felix

    Felix Well-Known Member

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Great Post...thank you for your effort!
    This must have been a lot of work and research!
    I think everybody who doesn't like split-spots but wants custom ASM's should have a look at this!
     
    #2
  3. hod

    hod Well-Known Member

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    That's a tremendous post, very useful - is it open to be updated by other members or is your research exhaustive then?

    +1 rep... :happy:
     
    #3
  4. MarkC79

    MarkC79 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Your right on with white w/ red, dg peach w/ black, and dg green w/ chocoalte. All splits in my set.

    Great post. This would have made things easier for me back in the day and I hope it helps out many people considering ASMs.
     
    #4
  5. imthatguy

    imthatguy Lifetimer/Former Mod
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Stickied for your pleasure. Thank you Gil.
     
    #5
  6. EmptyPocs

    EmptyPocs all chips, no cash
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    If it helps you with the chart and/or appendix notes I was told a month ago 3U Black with white would not work. The white would "vanish".

    EDIT: and this was on an hourglass mold chip but I do not know if that was a factor.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  7. ovo

    ovo World Series Chump
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Very nice job, I'll check my ASM's sometime and give you additional info if I find any. Thank You very much.
     
    #7
  8. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Great post, really helpful, thanks alot for putting the effort in, must have taken quite a while....

    Its really interesting to see some of the patterns that have emerged.
     
    #8
  9. bmwguy525

    bmwguy525 Faux Clay Nation

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Thanks for the time and effort in putting this together. It was clear that it was certain color combination causing this, but it was a total guessing game until this. Thanks a lot Albino!
     
    #9
  10. Vince

    Vince Faux Clay Nation

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    I didn't read the entire post but I think it's pretty cool!
     
    #10
  11. Brewster

    Brewster the office ninja

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Excellent work AD. Perhaps we could update this as more sets are finished.

    It would be very cool if Jim could drop by and offer some insite from what he sees inside the factory.
     
    #11
  12. mrcashflow

    mrcashflow Well-Known Member

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Great tracking. I personally had significant splitting of the dayglow yellow spots in my Imp. Blue. This chip is a 212 spot pattern.
     
    #12
  13. AlbinoDragon

    AlbinoDragon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Chart updated with a few more combos.

    It is my intent to keep the chart updated as I see new color combos (or maybe under-represented combos) as they appear in the custom chip gallery. If they don't get posted there, it's kind of hard to do the updates.

    As a side note, I will look at the pictures to determine the amount of splitting. I do this not to spite your personal analysis, but to keep things uniform. If you want to know what I consider rarely splitting vs. all the time, take a look at the pics in the gallery and you can get a feel that way.

    Matty, thanks for the sticky. I suspect others will appreciate it more than I do.

    ovo, PM received and thanks for it!! Your set helped with MANY of the slots in the chart. The message helped me figure out which colors were what (and then fill in a couple more slots).

    mrcashflow, I knew your I. Blue / DG Yellow chips were a problem. I don't know why I missed them in the chart. That's been fixed.

    Brewster, and others with the same thought, I plan on updating. I'll make it a point to post in the thread when I've done this. I should probably make a note of the last update on the chart itself. I'll do that with the next one.

    Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess this was a labor of love more than anything else. I've got split spots myself. I might have picked different colors if I knew.... Then again, maybe not. The yellow with 412 black chips look fantastic!!
     
    #13
  14. ovo

    ovo World Series Chump
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Thanks AD, I plan on trying out your quick fix on my black and yellow chips.
     
    #14
  15. jldecarlo

    jldecarlo Super Moderator
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Nice post for sure. Brilliant idea and one that should be referenced by pc.com. I'm not in the immediate market for more ASMs (once I get the ones I ordered in May), but I won't order any more in the future without consulting this chart.

    L

    Edit: Is the thinking that the relative viscosities of the different colors of clay and the primary reason for the split spots (ie. a less viscous base with a "thicker" spot causes a split)?
     
    #15
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
  16. bmwguy525

    bmwguy525 Faux Clay Nation

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    I had a conversation with Cathy a few days ago regarding the cause of the splitting, as to whether or not there are color combos we can choose to get around the splitting or if it's just the time/heat they use to shell out their orders now.

    She told me that there is no color combinations that she can guarantee will be without splits on any production. Sometimes a certain combination will have no splits, sometimes it will have a few, sometimes it will have many.

    I think that this chart shows what we have seen around here pretty accurately. Since there is a density issue that applies when pressing and steaming the chips, even though ASM can't give their guarantee to a non-splitting color combination due to business practices, this chart is going to be as good of a suggestion as we're gonna get when it comes to current orders.

    I don't know how their production is run, but it seems to me that when they have fewer orders we see better looking chips. When they have more chips to produce they make them faster using a different heat and that's the primary cause of the splitting we're seeing.
     
    #16
  17. Mistakenly

    Mistakenly Creativity Alliance

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    If splitting is caused by the relative densities of the colored clay (yet to be confirmed), is it possible to deduce from the chart a density ranking? eg. if black edgespots split on a yellow chip, but yellow edgespots don't split on a black chip... can we say that yellow is denser than black??
     
    #17
  18. ArtFern

    ArtFern Well-Known Member

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Interesting that all the manufacturers are having this problem now. I wonder if this is a result of removing lead from the recipe.
     
    #18
  19. EmptyPocs

    EmptyPocs all chips, no cash
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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    I think they never had lead,

    one can only hope they add it sometime :wink:
     
    #19
  20. duartefx

    duartefx Member

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    Re: Will It Split?? (or the ASM color-split chart)

    Hello everyone

    I am new here and let me congratulate you for the great forum. I've learned so much!

    Unfortunately, I did't read this topic until now. I ordered my first ASM chip set a few days ago and one of the colors I chose was White 312 Red... I guess it is very likely the spots will split.

    But at least I ordered the H mold. Who knows, I might get lucky...
     
    #20

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