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When do you allow rebuys in a cash game?

Discussion in 'Cash Game / Ring Game Advice' started by BigBrando, Jul 20, 2007.

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When (and by how much) do you allow rebuys in your cash game?

Poll closed Aug 3, 2007.
  1. Up to buy-in amount when stack reaches 50% of buy-in?

    7.0%
  2. Can exceed buy-in amount by __ when stack reaches 50 % of buy-in?

    4.7%
  3. Only after busting out (what amount?)

    9.3%
  4. Any time (what amount?)

    79.1%
  1. BigBrando

    BigBrando Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have any suggestions for how to handle rebuys in a cash game? Currently, at one of our host's games we play a $40 buy-in $0.25/$0.50 NL game with rebuys permitted when you hit below $30. You may purchase up to a total of $50 in front of you after this (unlimited rebuys, of course). Previously we played where you had to get down to 50% of your original stack.

    Personally, I don't know how I feel about allowing rebuys that exceed the original buy-in in a home game. I'm used to it at casinos, but it's something that's been on my mind since we restructured the rebuy rules.

    So, please help me figure out a good solution - as I will be hosting more of these games in the future. Should I...

    1) Allow rebuys up to buy-in amount when stack reaches __% of buy-in? (Please indicate percent level)
    2) Allow rebuys to exceed buy-in amount by __ when stack reaches __ % of buy-in? (Please indicate amount)
    3) Allow rebuys only after busting out
    4) Allow rebuys at any point

    Thanks!
     
    #1
  2. hod

    hod Well-Known Member

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    We have a reasonable group of guys we play with; our general rule is you can rebuy whenever you wish as long as you are not involved in a hand, up to the max that the chipleader currently has. No one normally does come close to doign that however, and I don't think it would stand up to scrutiny in a serious cash game.
     
    #2
  3. Clipper

    Clipper Banned

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    Some local games I play in get all caught up in re-buy policy, etc. My advice (what I do when I host the game) is to not play re-buy police. Let players buy-into the game for whatever they like. People have a misconception that a big stack will "bully everybody around". This is total BS. If you buyin for a smaller amount that the big stack and get head-up with him, guess what? The big stack is effectively playing a stack the same size as yours. He can't "bully" what you don't have on the table. There are actually advantages to buyin in with a smaller stack. It makes NL decisions and strategy much easier. The difficult decisions are big stack against big stack. Notice how Barry Greenstein buys in for the minimum on High Stakes Poker. Barry certainly knows what he is doing - he could afford a big stack, but chooses to buyin for the minumum. I think there should be a minumum buyin of at least 25 big blinds though (otherwise you may have move-in specialist correctly simplify strategy too much).
     
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  4. jbdanutz

    jbdanutz Well-Known Member

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    Any time after a players stack has gone under the max buy in amount...(exampe 200$ max buy in I have 160, I can reload for 40 more)
     
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  5. ballman

    ballman Faux Clay Nation

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    Most games I play in have a max buy-in to begin the game... ie $40 or $50 for a .25/.50 game. After the initial buy-in, rebuys can occur at any time for up to the max initial or the size of the biggest stack at the table (whichever is higher).
     
    #5
  6. wijwij

    wijwij Well-Known Member

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    We've never played that you had to go below a certain amount to rebuy. You can always rebuy so your stack is the max buy-in amount between hands. That resembles practice at Foxwoods. This guideline has never led to people rebuying in a nuisance way; usually people don't rebuy until they are down well below half their initial stack, or they have busted out, so it has not required a lot of banker involvement.

    I don't like the idea of being able to rebuy to match the biggest stack at the table. I've never played in a casino where that was allowed. To me, it makes the game's effective size grow exponentially without bounds. I have heard of private games where this guideline is in place.

    To somewhat counter people's complaints that their buy-ins after they bust out are less effective when there are bigger stacks at the table as the game progresses, we have sometimes decided to double the max buy-in once the AVERAGE chip stack at the table reaches double the original max buy-in.

    Example: With 10 players and a $10 buy-in (5c/10c blinds), we have a bank of $100 in play and an average chip stack of $100/10 = $10. When rebuys happen and we finally reach a bank of $200, then the average chip stack is $200/10 = $20. At that point, we may raise the max buy-in to $20, and possibly increase blinds (to 10c/25c in our game). We only do this as a discrete "jump" once in an evening.

    You could theoretically have a continuous rule. That is, you could say, "You are allowed to rebuy for whatever the average stack size is." That would be a changing amount, though, calculated by assessing the current bank and dividing by the number of players. It has seemed too draconian to implement.

    I disagree that big stacks can't "bully" the table. A big stack only puts a portion of their chips at risk when calling a small stack's all-in, true, but since that portion is so much smaller than their whole stack, they may be willing to do this, repeatedly, making it difficult for small stacks to play against them. This is definitely true in tournament play and I think it is to a lesser extent an element in cash play.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  7. mrticsay

    mrticsay Well-Known Member

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    While it would be nice to allow rebuys at anytime (while not in a hand) to get you back to the table max buy-in, as a host (and keeper of the cash), I would hate that. I don't want to have to be worrying about being in a hand while someone is trying to rebuy, not being able to focus on people's play, etc, etc. So, by setting a percentage, you reduce the interruptions.

    Also, I'm for any other rules that make the hosts life easier and are equitable to the players (fair is a relative term). Since this isn't a business and there are "staff" dedicated to being the bank/cage, players have to be more tolerant. Otherwise, they can hop in a car, plane, etc. and go to the casino.
     
    #7
  8. Quads

    Quads Creativity Alliance

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    Reload, anytime, up to the max buy in, should there be one in place.
    Players usually refill their stack when they hit ~25% of their buy in if they are bleeding, or of course if and when they are felted.

    As far as amount of rebuy, I don't care for capped games, but I also support the idea of max buying / rebuying into a game which is equal to the large stack in play.
     
    #8
  9. BigBrando

    BigBrando Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the great replies. There were a lot of things I hadn't considered. Host convenience is an interesting point, and I was glad to hear some input on how rebuys may or may not affect strategy and gameplay.

    Personally, I do believe that there is an advantage to being big stack - at least at our home game. I'd be curious to hear more about this, but that's an entirely different subject.

    As two of you mentioned, the idea of allowing rebuys up to the chip leader's amount is pretty intriguing. It might take some more persuasion for me to adopt that - as I like the idea of their being some structure to things (standard rebuys and certain times).

    I guess, in a sense, our cash game has adopted the structure of a tournament at the expense of adding more cash to the game :stunned:

    Thanks for all the great input!
     
    #9
  10. wijwij

    wijwij Well-Known Member

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    Here is an exaggerated scenario that clarifies the distinction between a max buy-in game and a "buy to match the big stack."

    Mr. Moneybags plays Mr. Donkey. They both go all-in every hand and Moneybags always wins. Donkey always rebuys.

    Results after each hand:

    Hand 1: Moneybags: $20 Donk: $0
    Hand 2: Moneybags: $30 Donk: $0
    Hand 3: Moneybags: $40 Donk: $0
    Hand 4: Moneybags: $50 Donk: $0
    Hand 5: Moneybags: $60 Donk: $0

    That's the linear progression that a max buy-in affords.

    If you allow player to rebuy up to big stack at table:

    Hand 1: Moneybags: $20 Donk: $0
    Hand 2: Moneybags: $40 Donk: $0
    Hand 3: Moneybags: $80 Donk: $0
    Hand 4: Moneybags: $160 Donk: $0
    Hand 5: Moneybags: $320 Donk: $0

    New buy-in max is now $320. Game gets out of control, theoretically, and the relation of stacks to blind sizes is way out of kilter.

    Note: It's not necessary for just one player to always win. The game still gets out of control as long as two adversaries continue to go all in and always rebuy for the new max. The big-stack player might change with every hand, but the max buy-in just keeps getting bigger and bigger anyway.

    I know that is an exaggeration. But there is a possibility for a "friendly" home game to devolve into one that is harder for people with less deep pockets to feel comfortable in.

    Maybe the reality would be much less dramatic and such a rule could be used because the game would settle into a typical rebuy amount based on people's means.
     
    #10
  11. hachkc

    hachkc Well-Known Member

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    Comments

    1. Generally, only allow rebuys upto the original max buyin UNLESS you like the rule where the max buyin is x% of the big stack.

    2. Most NL/PL games I see are a fixed max buyin except for the occasional cap game.

    3. Require that all buyins must be a minimum of $x as you don't want some dufus looking to rebuy $2 after the blinds have passed him buy. I'd say around 20% of the max buyin rounded up/down to the nearest meaningful dollar amount and in increments of that dollar amount. For .25/.50 NLHE game a $40-$50 max buyin, require a minimum rebuy of $10 and larger rebuys in increments of $10. This way you don't need to be fiddling with counting out specific chips for someone, just toss him a few $5 or $20 chips. If someone with $42 chips wants to reload to $50, tell them to give you $10 and you'll give them $8 in chips or wait a bit longer :)
     
    #11
  12. xtwalker

    xtwalker Well-Known Member

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    Thought on host convenience... I generally play a 3-5 NL game with max buy-in of $300, but I always want to get back up to $300 quickly if my stack dips. I will buy $400-500 from the cage, and put $300 in play and a handful of $25 chips in my pocket to come out for any necessary "rebuy."

    If you let your players do this in a home game it would have no effect on the game, the host, or end of day cash out. Only difference is when those chips come into play.

    Just a thought...

    XT
     
    #12
  13. whataboutj

    whataboutj TAG extrodinare

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    on the wayyy negative side of varince
    In the cash home games i have played in the max buy in has been set at 100x the BB - the rebuys are up to/equal the max and only when you hit 25% of your stack or lower to keep constant rebuys from happening.

    it is interesting to see the other ways to set it up - great thread
    J
     
    #13
  14. guinness

    guinness Degen Gatekeeper
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    For the cash game, we allow you to buyin, add-on as much as you want. We just don't let you buyin while in the middle of a hand. For the cash game, we play .25\.50 or .50\$1 NL or other HORSE games and people buy in for $20 but if someone wanted to buyin for $1K we wouldn't care.

    tim
     
    #14
  15. Josh

    Josh Second best Josh on CT.
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    Any time (except during a hand) for any amount.
     
    #15
  16. dad604

    dad604 Well-Known Member

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    The normal rule is anytime when not in a hand up to the max buy in. I don't like the idea of allowing rebuy equal to the big stack. It is an advantage to have a big stack and that player work hard to accumulate that stack.

    The above is for NL, for a limit game, I have a min buyin/rebuy but now max. You can buy as much as you want before game or between hands.
     
    #16
  17. julian

    julian Well-Known Member

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    my games are always deep and uncapped
     
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  18. shadesofgrey

    shadesofgrey Well-Known Member

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    Typically, max buyins are 100x BB.

    rebuys are allowed whenever you are out of a hand & can not exceed the max buyin...

    there are a couple places where you can buyin at 75% the big stack, but i dont think i've ever seen anyone do it.
     
    #18
  19. on tilt

    on tilt CCGTCC Member

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    We allow rebuys anytime you get below the maximum buyin which is usually 100 x BB.
     
    #19
  20. Fins

    Fins Well-Known Member

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    We play you can rebuy any time (obiously not during a hand) to have up to 200BB's or 3/4 largest stack which ever is higher in front of you for NLHE. So for our 25c/50c game it starts at 100max but most BI for $20 and later in the night start buying in for $40.
     
    #20

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