Welcome to the ChipTalk Community

Want to join the rest of the ChipTalk members? It is free to sign up today and unlock new features, discussions, and reduce the advertising.

Sign Up

Texas Hold Em Rule Question

Discussion in 'Home Poker Rules' started by glocks1726, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. glocks1726

    glocks1726 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was playing in a Texas Hold Em Tourment and while playing i was out this hand. One of the players after 5th street and all betting was completed showed one card K and the board had K 3 5 J 7 The other player showed his cards J 2. So yes the pair of Kings won. and the player who won said that he does not have to show his other card.

    Anyone ever run into a player like this?
     
    #1
  2. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    310
    Location:
    bottom pair and a flush draw
    you need a legal two card hand to win a pot. that means showing down both cards.
    tell the joker to turn up his cards or forfeit the pot.
     
    #2
  3. cgraham86

    cgraham86 Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Seattle
    100% agree. The dealer or tournament judge would force him to show anyway but if they don't and I was the looser in that hand I'd be pretty vocal about seeing the other card.

    I think in some of the smaller card rooms for cash you might get away with that but not in a tournament of any reasonable quality.

    Either way Mr. J-2 paid to see both cards.
     
    #3
  4. wafflestomper

    wafflestomper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,106
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Our house rules are that you have to show both in a tourney. You only HAVE to show 1 card in a cash game (although we always show both out of being considerate to each other).
     
    #4
  5. Aquaman H20

    Aquaman H20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    JoJo is right. (of course):wink: 2 cards to win a show down.
     
    #5
  6. Josh7975

    Josh7975 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Would this still be the case if the loser showed his hand and insta-mucked?

    Would it still be the case if loser just mucked after seeing the K?

    I'm pretty sure answer is yes, it's always been that way in casino cardrooms where I've played, but just want to make sure this is an absolute rule (not a house rule).
     
    #6
  7. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    310
    Location:
    bottom pair and a flush draw
    i'm pretty sure the answer is no. if everyone else mucks you win the pot. who else would win it? and btw you are certainly not required to show your whole hand if no one else is holding cards.

    there's a story about tj cloutier bluffing out a guy when he only had one card.
     
    #7
  8. Josh7975

    Josh7975 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    So if winner shows the K, and loser just mucks, winner doesn't have to show both cards?

    I've basically always seen the winner forced to show both, but maybe dealer was just being cautious. If I ever saw this not happen, I probably thought it was a mistake.

    Obv don't have to show if everyone folds, but always thought showing one was kind of like... "if you can beat this then I muck but if not then I guess I'll have to show my garbage card."

    I thought the TJ stoey was a bluff on the turn, but maybe I am thinking of the wrong story.
     
    #8
  9. glocks1726

    glocks1726 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks everyone. I appreciate your response's
     
    #9
  10. MSPatton

    MSPatton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    149
    From Roberts Rules

    THE SHOWDOWN

    1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.


    Of course "House Rules" aways supercede any "Standardized" rules
     
    #10
  11. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    310
    Location:
    bottom pair and a flush draw
    this is clearly not true. let's say i bet the flop and everyone folds. do i need to show my hand? why is the river an exception? if so, why isn't it stated?
     
    #11
  12. MSPatton

    MSPatton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    149

    Do I really need to explain why your example and "The Showdown" is different?

    Your hand (in your example) never made it to the showdown
     
    #12
  13. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    310
    Location:
    bottom pair and a flush draw
    oh missed that. so let's say i bet the river, you call. i show a king and you muck. i rake the pot and muck my hand. the cards are in the muck and you say hey the rule says you have to show your other card.

    now what?
     
    #13
  14. MSPatton

    MSPatton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    149
    Call the TD as there is no winning hand :wink:

    Honestly I do not know
     
    #14
  15. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    310
    Location:
    bottom pair and a flush draw
    yeah! my point is that in the casino the dealers protect the muck, make sure follk showdown, et cetera. in home games (or a poorly managed cardroom), the truth is that people muck their cards, and the last guy with a hand is awarded the pot.
     
    #15
  16. jamby

    jamby Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    14,657
    Likes Received:
    349
    Location:
    high, low & in between
    TJ actually had already mucked both of his cards when he won the legendary pot. Here's the story in his own words from a Bluff magazine interview - entire interview can be found here TJ Cloutier by Bluff Staff.

    Bluff: What’s the greatest bluff you’ve ever made? We hear you actually won a pot with no cards once…

    TJC: I was playing in Treeport, LA, with a guy called Wayne Edmonds. Every time Wayne made a bet, he’d always put his head down. In those days, we used to deal for ourselves. I remember I made a bet on fourth street and I had the nuts, and he called me for $2,000. I turned around to get a Coke and the guy who was dealing grabbed my cards. I thought, “Heck. What am I gonna do? I got money in there and now I’ve got no cards?” But I knew Wayne had had his head down and hadn’t seen any thing, so I just put my hands on the table to make it look like I was covering my cards. They burned and turned, and I just bet the rest of my chips, and he threw his hand away. Everybody at the table except Wayne knew I didn’t have a hand, but they never said anything. That was the way it went in those days.

     
    #16

Share This Page