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Ruling on annouce raise vs wrong amount of chips put into pot

Discussion in 'Home Poker Rules' started by dad604, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. dad604

    dad604 Well-Known Member

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    Re SteveA posting, where he annouce a raise of 150 but put 200 into pot instead, what is correct ruling on that? Should verbal announcement come first or amount of chips put into pot?

    I didn't want to hijack the other thread by posting there.
     
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  2. Strange

    Strange Creativity Alliance

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    If you announce 150 and then put in 200, you need to take back the 50. If you left them in there it would be a string bet, or at least the equivalent of one.

    What would happen if you announced a raise of 150, waited till someone moved towards their chips and then pushed all in? Would it stand? I don't think so for a second.
     
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  3. k_woods

    k_woods Well-Known Member

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    According to Robert (rule 8.)
    A verbal statement denotes your action and is binding. If in turn you verbally declare a fold, check, bet, call, or raise, you are forced to take that action.

    thus a declare of raise of 150 is binding.. period.. end of story...
    the only way it would not be a bet if it was not a legal bet (ie. blind 100 and a bet is anounced of 50), other wise it is a bet.

    This from a person who plays a lot of craps.. tell a dealer a bet.. and it is a bet....
    Ken
     
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    Last edited: Oct 10, 2005
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  4. Pavel6969

    Pavel6969 HIJACKED ACCOUNT? BANNED

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    If he put in $200 he should be getting $50 back. Seen it happen before, that's the reason the dealer usually counts your bet. Of course in most home games we don't have professional dealers, but you should always be sure of what you are putting into the pot.
     
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  5. smitty

    smitty Active Member

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    However..... I believe you can just announce "Raise" and you can keep putting chips into the pot with several motions.

    If you do not announce "raise" then the bet must come in one forward motion and you cannot return to your stack for more chips.
     
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  6. vrecksler

    vrecksler Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right dad; if SteveA announced a specific amount then he can only bet that amount and anything else would be similar to a string bet and should not be allowed. Of course in most home games you are often in the company of friends so I can see why it may not be enforced, but if going by the rules I would think the extra 50 would have to be returned.
     
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  7. k_woods

    k_woods Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. If all one says is "raise" then he could put in any legal amount.
    That is why I usually first anounce "raise" then I say "raise of XXX" this way if I count out the wrong amount I get it back.
    Mind you I learned this the hard way :sorry:

    Ken
     
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  8. KYBill

    KYBill Well-Known Member

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    If you say it you play it !


    :):):)
     
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  9. Matthew

    Matthew Super Moderator
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    Another post supporting the "verbal" declaration stands - not what was physically put in.
     
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  10. smitty

    smitty Active Member

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    Another gotcha (at least in formal games) is the rule whereby your bet stands even if you do not declare a raise. IE; it takes $50 to call and you throw in a $500 chip with no declaration.
     
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  11. austin5string

    austin5string Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I believe I remember reading in Robert's Rules of Poker that if you throw in a SINGLE chip that is greater than the bet, it's only considered a call.
     
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  12. ahopen78

    ahopen78 Banned

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    austin, you are correct.
    if you put in one chip and it is greater than the bet it is only call (unless you say raise).

    and it doesn't matter if you have smaller denomination chips to make the call either.
     
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  13. smitty

    smitty Active Member

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    Yep, I stand corrected.
     
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  14. Q10 soooted

    Q10 soooted Well-Known Member

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    Careful on that. That's in limit poker.
    No-Limit:
    11. A bet of a single chip or bill without comment is considered to be the full amount of the chip or bill allowed. However, a player acting on a previous bet with a larger denomination chip or bill is calling the previous bet unless this player makes a verbal declaration to raise the pot. (This includes acting on the forced bet of the big blind.)
    Pot-Limit:
    6. In pot-limit, if a chip or a bill larger than the pot size is put into the pot without comment, it is considered to be a bet of the pot size.

    I also thought there was a rule (in NL/PL) that a single chip before the flop was considered to be a call, but a single chip post-flop was a bet/raise to the value of the chip. I couldn't find that though. It may be a local casino rule.
     
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  15. Matthew

    Matthew Super Moderator
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    The no-limit live tournaments that I have played in at Foxwoods, Turning Stone, Peppermill (Reno) - throwing a chip in with no verbal declaration has been considered a call. No matter what chips the player has in front of them.

    I also said raise $1500 one time at TS tourny - proceeded to put the $300 blind in and then an additional $1500 - a player not even in the hand objected that the raise was to $1500 total, the dealer told me to take $300 back out.

    Once in Harvey's in Tahoe in a 2-4 Limit game a player was down to his last $5 chip - he just silently tossed it in at the river after the initial $4 bet - meaning to go all in - but the bettor objected and said it was a call - the dealer pulled a $1 out of the pot and gave it back to him. The guy says - "you'll get it back as your tip when the a-hole shows his crap" He took the pot in the showdown and gave that single chip to the dealer as tip - racked his pot and left.
     
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  16. whitepotatoe

    whitepotatoe Well-Known Member

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    11. A bet of a single chip or bill without comment is considered to be the full amount of the chip or bill allowed. However, a player acting on a previous bet with a larger denomination chip or bill is calling the previous bet unless this player makes a verbal declaration to raise the pot.

    If you are first to act, and you don't declare your bet, whatever you put into the pot is the bet. But if you are facing a previous bet of $20 and put in a $100 chip, you have only called. But if you put in two $25 chips, it is a raise to $50.

    I have never heard of the single chip rule being affected by pre or post flop play.

    6. In pot-limit, if a chip or a bill larger than the pot size is put into the pot without comment, it is considered to be a bet of the pot size.

    This is only if there has not been a previous bet. You cannot make a bet after someone else has already made a bet, you only have the option to raise, call, or fold.
     
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  17. Ramstone

    Ramstone Well-Known Member

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    It may seem stiff to some, but if you keep your vocabulary to two words, raise or call, youll find you get yourself in a lot fewer predicaments. Just say raise, take all the time you need to count it out, and put your raise in. Cuts down on the tell-age too.....

    and please PLEASE never muck till the chips are pushed to you. All sorts of bickering starts when you do that....
     
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  18. JM

    JM Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I second both of those, particularly the last. I made the mistake of mucking in the big blind because I thought the rest of the table had folded. Guy on the other end had called, but it was so noisy in there I didn't hear it and he had his hands over his cards so I didn't see them with a glance at the table. I gave my cards to the dealer when the sb folded and was surprised to see the chips going the other way! Of course the cards already hit the much, so I was hosed (and pissed). Luckily it was a tournament and not 'real money' and only a Q2o, but still could have been a winning hand. :disappoi:
     
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  19. austin5string

    austin5string Well-Known Member

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    Right. I only meant when acting on a previous bet.
     
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  20. Double Eagle

    Double Eagle Well-Known Member
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    First, a verbal declaration is binding and you can not put more chips in the pot than you announced. The $50 must come back.

    Second, you can NOT make several motions after calling raise. You may make one motion to place the amount of chips equal to the call, and then the raise must be made with in one additional motion. When you are watching on TV and you think you are seeing several motions, the players are just staging their bets next to their chip stacks before placing them out on the betting area.
     
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