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Question on Max Buyin limits

Discussion in 'Cash Game / Ring Game Advice' started by gcrissman, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. gcrissman

    gcrissman Well-Known Member

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    We had something come up this weekend and I am not sure what the proper way is to handle it.

    Background - We have a house rule for our cash game on league nights (and for most part anytime we play in the neighborhood).
    1st table = .50/1 NLHE $40 min $100 max
    2nd table = 1/2 NLHE $60 min $200 max but we try to keep it below $150

    We had issue with people buying in for $200 for a .50/1 game and then bullying from the beginning which was scaring off the people who wanted to play but were buying in for $40. They had no issue losing $40 or $80 a night but they started to fell like they were giving it away, ironically those players have been scared off anyways.

    So Saturday night we have 1 cash table so far, .50/1with the avg buyin at 60 and we had 4 rebuys for $100. Two bigger chips stacks (at about $300 and $450) while the rest were $60 - $100. We are 8 players at the table and a new player wants to buyin for $200. I tell him $100 max as I am the banker and the rules guy. He claims that it is not fair with the 2 big chip stacks and throws a semi-fit (he complains about everything). Luckily the 2nd table opens and he plays there but it got me thinking.

    Do I need to adjust the max buyin after play has started? if so at what point?
     
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  2. schullerjason

    schullerjason Well-Known Member

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    Ok, first, you goto a casino, and there could be 8 people sitting there with $1000 stacks and you can’t buy in for more than 3 or 5 hundred depending on ½ or 2/5 . It’s just the way it is. Everyone there worked their stacks up from the max buy in. The ONLY time I relax the max buyin rule is if the SHORTEST stack is above the max buy in. For example, your max of $100, but the shortest stack has $175. They can buy-in for $175. I would say 150 BB is acceptable for a max buy-in. That allows you to see some flops and keeps the shove-fest to a minimum. If one guy is a complainer, f him.
     
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  3. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    bottom pair and a flush draw
    you can play shorter stacks, but it's pretty boring. i mean...so what, you flop top pair and stick it in and see who wins?

    i play in regular small stakes cash games and i love guys that want to play every pot and play aggressively. they win 20 $3 dollar pots and then lose a $300 pot.

    if it's threatening to break up your game, don't invite the guys that are hurting, reduce buyin (blarg), or play tournaments.
     
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  4. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    bottom pair and a flush draw
    as to "not fair", nonsense.

    there's no inherent advantage to the big stacks having big stacks. in a cash game, you play for the smaller person's stack, period. so if he has $200 and the other guy has $400, you're playing $200 deep and so is he. where's the advantage?

    if the big stack was playing 10k deep it'd be the same. it's not a tournament, the goal is not to win all the chips.
     
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  5. JoseRijo

    JoseRijo Well-Known Member

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    Let's say I'm at your game. I win monies in the tourney and buy-in for the max, $100. It's a fair max buy-in - there's a reason why that's the default for all of the online cash games.

    Now I double up because some lagtard just HAS to push over my perceived c-bet when I have top set. It isn't fair to me if you all of a sudden change the rule and allow him to rebuy for 200 big-blinds. The game does change between 100 big-blinds and 200 big-blinds.

    The max buy-in rule is there for a reason. It isn't fair to change it mid-stream just because someone complains.
     
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  6. gcrissman

    gcrissman Well-Known Member

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    The cash games are after our league tournament so tournaments are not the answer. I agree with the let them win $3 pots analogy and is pretty much how I play against them.

    We did discovered Saturday night their kryptonite is PLO so that will now be put into the rotation. :)
     
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  7. gcrissman

    gcrissman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I am glad I am not the only one who thinks that way.

     
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  8. jtfjethro

    jtfjethro Member

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    Stick to your rules and your max buy in. I ran into the same problem at my game. I would rather lose one player than lose 3 or more. If he wants to play the bigger game he will wait or he can play by the rules. Enjoy.
     
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  9. ipgyst

    ipgyst Well-Known Member

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    One alternate idea - play the game with a cap (say 100 or 150 BB per hand) and ppl can buy in for whatever they want. Just an idea.
     
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  10. Biceman

    Biceman Well-Known Member

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    Other than possibly making an exception like Jason suggested (100 BB's or the smallest stack at the table, whichever is greater), I would just stick with your rule. If you're at a casino or online, the max is the max, period, so there's nothing unfair about it.

    Our problem with this has been with the guy who, before we really had a rule about this, always wanted to buy in for like $700 in a $1-$2 NL game. The problem was, he was the type of player who you wanted putting as much money on the table as he was willing to put out there. All the usual reasons for having a max buy-in went out the window with this guy. We never really had a rule for a max, even an informal one, but no one had ever really tried to buy in for more than about $200 before. But just on principle we decided to go with a 100 BB max.
     
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  11. tator2k

    tator2k CCGTCC Member

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    Keep your max buyin per table as is. Just watch out for guys who want to sit at the higher table buyin for more than want to take all their chips to the lower table. They should be only able to sit down with the table max, not with everything in their hands. Reason I mention this, is I've seen it happen.

    Also what's scarier:

    Table A (Binion's) $100 min / No Max $40k on the table in a 1-2 NL game.

    Table B (M Resort) $50 min / $300 Max Ave Stack $1500 with top stack over $7k again 1-2 NL.
     
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  12. alpine0000

    alpine0000 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Greg,

    This is a no-brainer. Zero chance you should change the buyin. If somebody is sitting at a table, and doubles up twice, and now has a big stack, and a new player sits down, why should you let the new player buy for more than the first player and give the new player a shot at a larger portion of the deep-stacked players chips right off the bat? That is insane, and shouldn't even be considered.

    The complainer can buy in for $100, or go home. :shocked:

    HOWEVER... the bolded portion below is clearly an issue. It shows that rules are in place, but are often broken, and this should be a big no-no. Also, it makes a case for the new player, who now has a reason to complain... "But everybody else buys in for $200!"

    How did the above become an issue if you guys have a house rule in place? The very first time somebody tried to buy for $200, they shouldve gotten denied.
     
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  13. gcrissman

    gcrissman Well-Known Member

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    The house rule was put in place to deal with this. We never had to deal with house rules until we expanded our group beyond the 8-10 neighbors. When we decided to grow our game we came up new rules based on things that happen, more reactionary vs proactive.
     
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  14. alpine0000

    alpine0000 Well-Known Member

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    Well, thats good. I def think you should stick to the buyin rules, whatever they may be, and not make exceptions depending on stack sizes. If everybody is always wanting to buyin for more, then maybe think of raising the max buyin house rule. If not, enforce the $100 rule with an iron fist! :cool:

    In the long run, youll gain more respect than you'll lose. :wink:
     
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  15. Syfted

    Syfted Well-Known Member

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    Just to add, NLHE isn't No Limit at all, it's Stack Limit... stack sizes are more important than blind levels. While in tournaments, where the blinds are high, I do very much believe the game to be a struggle for the blinds... the same does not seem true in cash games- deep stacked, NLHE is a struggle for stacks.

    When we played $.10/$.25 with a $50 max, the game ran like a $.25/.50. Standard preflop raise became $1.25-$2, and even more as the night wore. And playing a $.10/$.25 with $75 stacks is just super super duper deep.

    Someone once told me, "if there were no blinds, the only hand you would play would be Aces." Bullshit. What governs the size of a NLHE cash game is the size of the effective stacks, not the size of the blinds.

    And about this 3xBB raising crap. Keep to it in tournaments but just give up on it in cash games. Raising 3xBB in a 300BB game has a drastically different effect on postflop play than doing so with 100BB effective.

    If your boys are really concerned about losing their beer money then play Cap Limit. Changing the stake is raising or lowering the buy in, not raising or lowering the blinds.


    @Tator2k: Shortstacking that game at Binions would probably make you a fortune
     
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  16. SoDamnRed

    SoDamnRed Well-Known Member

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    Please elaborate? I don't see how without the presence of any blinds or antes would there be any action except for AA and/or other super premium hands. What incentive do people have to play any hands if there is nothing to be won? I agree that effective stacks are very important, but no game would progress without some sort of forced bet or ante since it would just lead to nut peddling all around.
     
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  17. Matt255

    Matt255 Well-Known Member

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    I never understand maximum buyins in homegames. Like some people here already said, you are always playing for the shortest stacks in the game. A player who buys in for $1000 if the other players have like $100 has absolutely zero advantage by doing that. I often hear that he can bully the table, no he can't, unless playing extremely bad. He can't just overbet every single pot "to bully" and expect to win money by doing so. I would be very happy if i had one of those guys in my homegame.

    But if you really want maximum buyins, it should be at least 100 BBs (i would prefer 200 BB) and it shouldn't change in the middle of the game. If i was playing in a game with maximum buyins (say 100 BB) and sometime in the middle of the night someone is allowed to buy in for 200 BB, just because he lost a lot and wants to get his money back, i would feel cheated. If there is a rule, don't break it.
     
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