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let's make a prop bet: WSOP horses

Discussion in 'ChipTalk Contests and Tournaments' started by jojobinks, May 19, 2009.

  1. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    i don't know how it'll work...let's discuss.

    basics:
    there's a wager, maybe escrowed with a member, maybe not
    people that want to participate will somehow choose some horses
    based on performance of your horses ($s cashed, FTs, wins, et cetera), someone will win.

    i'd like to have multiple horses...maybe in a draft done via IM or in thread. and i think we should use a simple formula for determining winnars...wsop player of the year points, or bracelets won, or some combination of the two.

    event #2 (the first open to the public) begins 5/28, so i suggest we work quickly to nail down details. discuss?
     
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  2. trutan

    trutan Well-Known Member

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    I'm in but only if Ikkans holds the escrow. :wink:

    I'm up for anything up tp $20. I also like the idea of multiple horses through some sort of draft.

    Total $$ cashed or POY points sound good to me (or some combo of the two) sound god to me.
     
    #2
  3. jamby

    jamby Creativity Alliance

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    I'm in. Let's maybe do it for chips and/or cash though. Also - how about including cashes and making it POY points/bracelets/cashes?
     
    #3
  4. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    how do we do combine those three criteria to have it make sense who wins?

    we could do bracelets/cashes...like a bracelet is worth 3 points, each cash is worth one point, but i don't even know how many POY points the winner usually gets... :huh:

    it's getting complicated, but what if a bracelet is worth 5, a FT is worth 3, and a cash is worth 1? we'd have to leave out $$s cashed and POY points, but w/e.
     
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  5. BigKyle

    BigKyle Well-Known Member

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    I'm in for up to a twinkie. How about we use straight official WSOP POY points? Also, how many players per entry/team? I say 8 with an opportunity to sub somewhere (like if Doyle dies at the FT of 40k nlhe, for example).
     
    #5
  6. BigKyle

    BigKyle Well-Known Member

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  7. jamby

    jamby Creativity Alliance

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    Good point about it getting complicated. Am thinking that POY is sufficient since it already factors in the cashes/final tables/bracelets basically. Here's how the POY points are calculated according to Player of the Year at the WSOP

    Calculating Player of the Year Points
    Finishing a tournament in first will award a player the most points. Each consecutive place less than first will earn less and less points. A player must cash in an event in order to earn points as well. There are four different models from which the WSOP awards points to players: one for normal events, which is called the Standard Points Model, then the No Limit Hold'em Shootout Models (for events 11 and 17), the Heads Up Model (for event 25), and the Limit Hold'em Shootout Model (for event 53). The following charts show the places and points awarded for each place:

    Standard Points Model
    The standard points model is used for every event in the World Series of Poker minus the special events listed below. Here are the Player of the Year point values for almost every WSOP event:
    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 40%" cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Place Finished</TD><TD>Points Awarded</TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>100</TD></TR><TR><TD>2nd</TD><TD>75</TD></TR><TR><TD>3rd</TD><TD>60</TD></TR><TR><TD>4th</TD><TD>55</TD></TR><TR><TD>5th</TD><TD>50</TD></TR><TR><TD>6th</TD><TD>45</TD></TR><TR><TD>7th</TD><TD>40</TD></TR><TR><TD>8th</TD><TD>35</TD></TR><TR><TD>9th</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR><TD>10th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>11th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>12th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>13th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>14th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>15th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>16th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>17th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>18th</TD><TD>20</TD></TR><TR><TD>19th</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>20th</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>21st</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>22nd</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>23rd</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>24th</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>25th</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>26th</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>27th</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Cash</TD><TD>5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

    No Limit Hold'em Shootout Model (Event 11)
    Event 11 is a shootout tournament, which means that players are all seated at 9 man tables, and play at that table until one man/woman has every chip. Then, the winners all are compiled into new 9 man tables, and play again until one person has all the chips. Eventually, they get down to a final table, and play it like a sit and go to determine the winner.
    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 40%" cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Place Finished</TD><TD>Points Awarded</TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>100</TD></TR><TR><TD>2nd</TD><TD>75</TD></TR><TR><TD>3rd</TD><TD>60</TD></TR><TR><TD>4th</TD><TD>55</TD></TR><TR><TD>5th</TD><TD>50</TD></TR><TR><TD>6th</TD><TD>45</TD></TR><TR><TD>7th</TD><TD>40</TD></TR><TR><TD>8th</TD><TD>35</TD></TR><TR><TD>9th</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR><TD>10th</TD><TD>12</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

    No Limit Hold'em Shootout Model (Event 17)
    Event 17 has the same structure as event 11, but the buy-in is a $1,500 as opposed to the $5,000 buy-in for event 11. Here is the player of the year points structure:
    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 40%" cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Place Finished</TD><TD>Points Awarded</TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>100</TD></TR><TR><TD>2nd</TD><TD>75</TD></TR><TR><TD>3rd</TD><TD>60</TD></TR><TR><TD>4th</TD><TD>55</TD></TR><TR><TD>5th</TD><TD>50</TD></TR><TR><TD>6th</TD><TD>45</TD></TR><TR><TD>7th</TD><TD>40</TD></TR><TR><TD>8th</TD><TD>35</TD></TR><TR><TD>9th</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR><TD>10th-100th</TD><TD>7</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​


    Heads Up Championship Model (Event 25)
    Event 25 is a $10,000 heads up tournament which is termed the "World Heads Up Championship". In this format each player is seated at a two man table, and play until one player has all the chips. Whoever wins the match moves on to the next level, and it plays out in bracket style matches until one player is remaining.
    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 40%" cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Place Finished</TD><TD>Points Awarded</TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>100</TD></TR><TR><TD>2nd</TD><TD>75</TD></TR><TR><TD>3rd-4th</TD><TD>58</TD></TR><TR><TD>5th-8th</TD><TD>43</TD></TR><TR><TD>9th-16th</TD><TD>22</TD></TR><TR><TD>17th-32nd</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>33-64</TD><TD>5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

    Limit Hold'em Shootout (Event 53)
    This tournament is a $1,500 buy-in shootout, similar to events 11 and 17, but instead of No Limit Hold'em, the tournament is played Fixed Limit style.
    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 40%" cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Place Finished</TD><TD>Points Awarded</TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>100</TD></TR><TR><TD>2nd</TD><TD>75</TD></TR><TR><TD>3rd</TD><TD>60</TD></TR><TR><TD>4th</TD><TD>55</TD></TR><TR><TD>5th</TD><TD>50</TD></TR><TR><TD>6th</TD><TD>45</TD></TR><TR><TD>7th</TD><TD>40</TD></TR><TR><TD>8th</TD><TD>35</TD></TR><TR><TD>9th</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR><TD>10th-100th</TD><TD>7</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

    Some of the events hosted by the WSOP do not award points to the players including the $1,000 World Championship Ladies Event No-Limit Hold'em (Event 15), the $1,000 World Championship Seniors No-Limit Hold'em (Event 42), the $10,000 World Championship No-Limit Texas Hold'em (Event 54), and the $500 Casino Employees No-Limit Hold'em (Event 55).

     
    #7
  8. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    ok, i have a problem with POY, and here it is.

    they post rules, then do w/e they feel like as the wsop goes on. last year the 50k horse wasn't supposed to count (as in the past). lindgren finishes 3rd, and boom, it counts. now they get to have lindgren as their poster boy for the year.

    in addition, the main event doesn't count.

    i count those as two huge strikes. i know i know i put up poy as a possible criteria...but i think these are purty serious issues.

    how about straight up money cashed? this would make an interesting sweat for the ME, as no lead would be safe...
     
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  9. jamby

    jamby Creativity Alliance

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    How about we just modify POY to include HORSE (or not, as agreed) and ME?
     
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  10. EZMONEYRMJ

    EZMONEYRMJ Faux Clay Nation

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    I think this point system would be fair and easy to follow. I would also add that we double the point system for the main event just to add some extra flair to this.

    I would be in for $20. I think if we just did cash rather than chips as the wager, you would get a few more participants. Depending on how many play, i think we could pay out 3 places (50, 30, 20).

    I like the idea of drafting but not 8...lets keep it at like 3 or 4.

    Just my opinions.

    EZ
     
    #10
  11. BigKyle

    BigKyle Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't straight money cashed put a huge slant towards the players who are likely to do well in a) 40K nlhe, and b) 50K HORSE? Might as well load up with those guys because the winner will likely be the top-earning player outside the ME top 3. It would be more fun for me to pick a more diverse team.
     
    #11
  12. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    i'm willing to do POY if:
    • we include EVERY open event (no ladies only, not the ME winners only event, not casino employees, et cetera), and
    • if participants in the prop do their own accounting on their team. so in order to win the contest you'd have to make a post showing which horses got which points in which event. this'd take the accounting pressure off of me :razz: but still have it be easily audited by everyone.
     
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  13. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    oh and another detail...that point system is from last year...are we sticking with that, or trying to dig up the 09 rules, or what?
     
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  14. BigKyle

    BigKyle Well-Known Member

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    I like adding ME and HORSE and recalibrating the points awarded, since HORSE will only pay like 16 or 24 spots.
     
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  15. BigKyle

    BigKyle Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt matter to me unless there are some drastic changes to this year's setup.
     
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  16. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    i was just thinking about whether/when those details would go up on the site, et cetera. it's best to have all this stuff nailed down before people start putting monies up. :happy:
     
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  17. PhilTheThrill14

    PhilTheThrill14 Well-Known Member

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    Will I be getting 1.8 to 1 odds on my money?
     
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  18. jojobinks

    jojobinks Poker Nerd (and Admin)
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    i'll offer you that price v my team as long as your team includes maria ho, eskimo clark, johnny moss, russ hamilton and jamie gold.
     
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  19. BigKyle

    BigKyle Well-Known Member

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    What if we added a sixth or dropped the worst (fifth of five) player from the overall score? There would be no way to change your lineup but if somebody on your team decides at the last minute not to play any events because of a legal dispute with the wsop or something like that it wont kill you.
     
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  20. ipgyst

    ipgyst Well-Known Member

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    I like this system, with double the points for all 10K+ buyin events. Simple. All around talent is rewarded, because 10K PLO = 10K Stud = ME = 50K HORSE. Do a down-up draft for some even number of rounds and off you go. Open events only, and none of the rinky-dink holdem events after the ME starts can count either. If your horses win 3 or 4 bracelets, you're in great shape.
     
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