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I'm thinking of adding a Kill or 1/2 Kill to our split pot games

Discussion in 'Cash Game / Ring Game Advice' started by gmunny, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. gmunny

    gmunny #21
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    I've been thinking about adding either a Kill or a 1/2 Kill to our split pot games, especially since I just got a cool Palms Kill button. I've only played Omaha with a Kill twice at the Mirage a few years ago. Does any one else use a Kill at home?

    My memory isn't so good, so here's what I think happens:

    1) Pot is deemed a kill pot if high/low is scooped and is at least $X.
    2) The next hand, the blinds/bets are doubled (so if we were at $2/$4 it is now $4/$:cool:. The winner of the previous kill pot posts a 3rd blind? This part i'm foggy on. Is the 3rd blind 2x the size of the big blind and I assume they can't get the last option since that player's position can be anywhere or do they?
    3) Once hand is over, game goes back to normal pre-kill betting.

    Please let me know how you guys are doing it or if I have it completely wrong. Also, what are the pluses/minuses of using a Kill? Or did you try it and it killed the action instead of spurring it? We usually pay $2/$4 or $3/$6 fixed limit split-pot games and want to spice it up a little.

    Thanks,
    Greg
     
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  2. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    I haven't played with a kill or half kill in a home game, but I have in a casino. IMO there shouldn't be any difference.

    Point #1 is correct. In a high/low split game, a scoop triggers a kill on the next hand provided that the pot is at least the casino's minimum.

    Point #2 isn't quite right. The blinds on the kill hand are exactly the same as if it weren't a kill. The killer posts a live blind equal to 2x the big blind. Betting levels on all streets are 2x regular. If UTG is not the killer, his choices are to call 2x the BB (the killer's blind) or raise to 4x the BB (2x the killer's blind). If the killer is one of the blinds, he posts only the kill blind.

    In limit HE, a kill is triggered when one player wins two successive pots and both are at least the casino's minimum for a kill pot.

    With a half kill, everything is 1.5 times instead of 2x (i.e., $2/$4 becomes $3/$6).
     
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  3. schimmel

    schimmel Well-Known Member

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    pretty interesting stuff.

    i`ve never heard about this kill thing. i always wondered what those kill buttons were for. i thought they were used for tournaments...:embarras:
     
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  4. gmunny

    gmunny #21
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    That's great.. Thanks Abby! :)
     
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  5. LarryJ

    LarryJ Active Member

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    Another variation to think about:

    At the Mirage, the Kill acts in turn pre-flop.

    There's a 4-8 half-kill O8 game at the Orleans where the Kill always gets the last act pre-flop, no matter what seat he's in.

    Personally, I prefer the Mirage variation, but both variations are fun.

    LarryJ
     
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  6. LarryJ

    LarryJ Active Member

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    Forgot to mention that at the Orleans and the Mirage as, the Kill is triggered by pot that's 8x big blind (before any rake is taken). When we play O8 at Motor City, $73 is the magic number....$10 big blind x 8 minus $7 rake.

    LarryJ
     
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  7. 2_hotty

    2_hotty Well-Known Member

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    I used to love the 4/8 LHE 1/2 Kill game at Mandelay Bay. They still have that? Last time I went to Vegas a few months ago, I only played 1/2 NLHE there.
     
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  8. bmwguy525

    bmwguy525 Faux Clay Nation

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    Yeah Abby's dead on. And for the most part I've rarely seen the kill blind preflop play as last-act. In almost every kill game I've played it's been a live blind only.
     
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  9. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    So why play with a kill? Depends. Playing some of the hands are at higher stakes (1.5x or 2x) is attractive to players who would like to mix some higher stakes play into the game without actually playing a higher-stakes game, and it adds excitement and variety. For others, it's the only game available but they're clearly out of their comfort zone when a kill pot is in effect. (I speak from experience on that one, but I've since expanded my comfort zone.)

    A strategic pre-flop rule of thumb, similar to playing with straddlers, is either to raise or fold. This tends to drive out the weaker hands, puts pressure on the killer, and increases the amount of dead money in the pot.

    I'd like to hear more thoughts on why players like kill games.
     
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  10. bmwguy525

    bmwguy525 Faux Clay Nation

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    When I first started playing I played the kill games because...that's all there were :disappoi: Now a few years later when I only play for fun, and when I have a choice, I'll play the kill games to mix it up and to catch people out of their comfort zone.

    I love to play for fun so it's fun for me to try to chase that little elusive red kill button too, and it's even more fun when I have a friend or two at the table and we battle each other to dead-end of our stacks to try be on the kill. Then when the button comes it's like a right of passage and a reason to play harder against each other.

    Obviously in that instance it would be annoying to whoever isn't a friend at the table, but at a home game it would add just an excuse to really drill into your friends and vice versa. I like that idea :)
     
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  11. luckychick

    luckychick Creativity Alliance

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    If you would like, you can also make non-split games into kill games. If someone wins two pots in a row, then the kill is on. First win, the player gets "a leg up" and has the kill button face down; if he wins again the kill is on.

    For the variation where the kill is last to act: if you choose to use this variation, then I have always seen that the kill has last action pre-flop UNLESS THERE IS A RAISE IN FRONT. Then the normal order of action takes place.

    Why use a kill?

    It creates action, especially in split pot games.
    If you are playing a scoop makes a kill, then the nits who only play scooping hands have to donate at least two bets back.
    If you are playing limit poker with the two pots in a row kill, then it prevents blind steals, because often the kill will be more than just picking up the blinds twice in a row.
    Playing 2X stakes, as Marsha pointed out, can be pretty profitable; it will put quite a few players out of their comfort zone and they will play incorrectly.
    It also punishes shortstackers somewhat (although limit shortstackers are silly imo, anyway).
     
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  12. NCRxtreme

    NCRxtreme Active Member

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    so um...
    .25cents/.50cents blinds limit holdem kill
    after someone wins twice it turns to: .50cent .$1 blinds with bets at $1/$2
    with killer posting kill big blind right?
    please correct me if wrong
     
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  13. luckychick

    luckychick Creativity Alliance

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    No, see abby's post (specifically point number 2). The blinds stay at .25/50. The killer posts $1. The betting is $1/2.
     
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  14. Double Eagle

    Double Eagle Well-Known Member
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    Has anyone ever seen a kill used in a NLHE game? Are there reasons why it wouldn't work?
     
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  15. luckychick

    luckychick Creativity Alliance

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    While there is no reason as to why it wouldn't work, the effect would be minimal. The greatest effect the kill has is to double the stakes, but since the betting in, say, 1/2 is pretty much never $2 or $4, it is sort of moot. If you used the variation where the killer gets last action on a unraised pot preflop, I suppose you give the killer this advantage... but it's only preflop.

    The biggest effect might be that often casinos have a rule in effect where there is no straddle allowed on a kill pot (again, you may or may not want to implement this) - and in a lot of the live NL games there is a lot of straddling.

    With that being said, I've never seen a NL kill (probably for the first reason I listed) and it seems like a good way to piss people off and/or confuse them.
     
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  16. AceDeuceNoUse

    AceDeuceNoUse Well-Known Member

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    In my case, that's still the case :laugh:. I play Omaha8 exclusively at B&M's, and my favorite local casino (Bike) only offers 3/6 4/8 with a full kill. As Abby says, in a kill pot, I hope for either complete trash to fold or AA23 double sooooted to pop it.

    The last few times I was in Vegas and played the 5/10 at Mirage (mid week), there were rarely enough players in the hand (or at the table for that matter :stunned:) to meet the pot minimum for the kill. I definitely want to check out Orleans though, I hear that full tables for Omaha8/kill are the norm (and they have O8 tourneys too!). :cool:
     
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  17. bmwguy525

    bmwguy525 Faux Clay Nation

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    Yeah. While I'm not in Vegas enough to really say so (only 6 times last year), the Orleans is where the small-mid Omaha action is at. Lot of regulars though (aka miserable old people), and if you look under 60 years old they'll think you're a "kid" who doesn't know how to play and you can go take their money. It's good fun :happy:
     
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  18. hachkc

    hachkc Well-Known Member

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    I've played at the mirage but seem to remembering it being 7.5 or 75 for the 5/10 O 8 game. Most kill games are played where the kill button simply acts in normal order which is the method I prefer also.
     
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  19. hachkc

    hachkc Well-Known Member

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    Mirage in LV isn't much different the few times I've played there; mostly older regulars. Heard the 10/20 O 8 game at bellagio?/venetian? is supposed to be pretty soft on the weekends.
     
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  20. Double Eagle

    Double Eagle Well-Known Member
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    I guess the Hard Rock will be offering a NLHE game with kill in their new poker room.

    The Hard Rock Poker Lounge will also bring some new twists to the games they deal. Waldie and his team plan to offer a No-Limit game with kills (5X the small blind), as well as games with straddles.

    Thanks to Poker News.
     
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