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HORSE Cash Game - Advice Needed

Discussion in 'Cash Game / Ring Game Advice' started by 24tex24, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. 24tex24

    24tex24 Well-Known Member

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    I'm helping the host of my regular monthly game do a HORSE cash game (instead of our normal hold 'em only game) this Friday.

    We normally play .25/.50 NLHE, so I assume we'll play .25/.50 NL games for HORSE and have, where applicable, .10 antes.

    This will be our first time playing HORSE and for some of the players, their first time playing certain of the games (e.g. RAZZ). Is there a good site with the rules for each game?

    Also, I've seen other HORSE set ups where all games are played as limit games. I'm curious to see how other CTers have played and whether we should consider playing limit games rather than no limit.

    Anything else I need to consider (or worry about)?

    Thanks in advance for the advice.
     
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  2. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    I'd recommend trying the "search" feature, as I'm 100% sure I've read/written about this before...

    We play 25¢/50¢ NLHE, and find that HORSE with the following betting limits ends up being comparable.
    (and yes, HORSE is a limit game. Never heard or played 7-stud NL... can imagine it would be a lot of family all-in pots)
    Here's my "rules" page for the stud games:
    http://individual.utoronto.ca/jdunford/Samurai_Stud.pdf

    For community games ("H" & "O"):
    • 25¢ small blind, 50¢ big blind, $1 big bet (turn and river).
    For stud games ("R", "S", & "E"):
    • 5¢ antes, 10¢ bring-in, 25¢ complete (small bet), 50¢ big bet (on 5th-6th street, or when the board pairs on 4th street), $1 river bets.
    This should generate average pots in the $5-$10 range for a full (8-player) table.

    If you find this is too light and want more $10-$20 pots, try doubling those numbers (which we have done):
    • 50¢ small blind, $1 big blind, $2 big bet;
    • 10¢ ante, 20¢ bring-in, 50¢ complete/small bet, $1 big bet, $2 on the river.
    By the way, doubling the bet again on the river in stud games isn't a standard rule, but we like it as it introduces the opportunity to bluff on the river (especially in Razz and Hi/Low), since otherwise you're pretty much guaranteed to get called due to pot odds.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  3. Big Mike

    Big Mike Faux Clay Nation

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    As jdunford says, HORSE is always played limit only. You could switch the hold'em to NL if you want, but the rest not so much.
     
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  4. Harlequin011

    Harlequin011 Sin City Showdown Host

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    3rded for HORSE = limit play.
     
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  5. 24tex24

    24tex24 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up. Its pretty obvious I've never played HORSE, isn't it? :happy:

    I'll let everyone know how it goes.
     
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  6. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

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    I have had a few nights where we played SHOE (Horse without the Razz) and it was limit expect for Hold'em and we played 20 min rounds until it was 4 handed then we just played each game for one orbit then switched.

    Last week for real change of pace we played SOC....Stud high with dealers choice wild, Omaha High (NL), and Crazy Pineapple. This really seemed to suit everyone because we played for 20 min rounds again and it kept the guys who are always calling for an end to the Hold'em so they could call some crazy DC game happy for much longer than normal!!

    Good Luck with your game!!
     
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  7. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    Oh, I failed to mention we usually play 2 orbits of a given game before switching. That's assuming everyone plays (nobody sitting out half the time or anything); otherwise you might want to go with a fixed amount of time per game. Keep in mind Omaha Hi/Lo and Stud Hi/Lo tend to take quite a bit of time per hand (especially if you're used to NLHE, aka "Texas Fold'em").
     
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  8. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    The standard game of HORSE is all limit. For cash games, it's convenient to play each game for one or two orbits (e.g., one orbit for a full table of 8, or two orbits for a short-handed game).

    Post a schedule showing the ante, bring-in, completion, and betting levels for all to see.

    Decide ahead of time whether you want a card burned before all streets (other than the initial deal) in the stud games. This is SOP in casinos and is the correct way to deal according to Robert's Rules of Poker, but some home games eliminate the burn cards. Also brush up on what to do in the rare case of not having enough cards to deal a round of stud (unlikely, but possible).

    Bob Ciaffone's Robert's Rules of Poker is an excellent source for correct dealing procedures for stud games.

    Have fun, and good luck!
     
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  9. wdwells

    wdwells Active Member

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    For the past few weeks at my home game I have be having a .25/.50 NL modified ( by that I mean my own version) HORSE cash game and everyone seems to really like it. It's dealer choice and we play from the five games of Hold'em, Omaha (high), Rotten Pineapple, Super Hold'em, and omaha Eight or better (high/low split). Each variation is the same flop, turn, river type of game and was very easy for everyone to catch onto rather quickly.
    I think I understand Razz but I would pull my hair out trying to explain it to my redneck friends. So, I prefer the K.I.S.S. method of poker.

    Good Luck with your home game, Wayne
     
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  10. jldecarlo

    jldecarlo Super Moderator
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    Two questions:

    jdunford: could you post your stud rules as a word/txt file so I can modify it for the limits my group will play.

    Is it typical to increase the bets again on the river like you describe?

    L
     
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  11. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Jdunford (re house rule page):

    If an open pair is showing on 4th street, the general rule is that the bet may be doubled. Is that the case in your game, or is the double bet mandatory (or did I read it wrong?)?
     
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  12. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    Will do. Unfortunately I don't have it on my work computer anymore, so I'll try to remember it tomorrow (or once I get internet at home again - should be soon). Also, you can find Robert's Rules (v.7) for all the games here:
    http://www.homepokertourney.com/docs/rulebook/poker-rulebook-roberts-7.pdf

    No, but if the action is "bet - call" on every street, the bet on the river is almost guaranteed to be called (caller is getting ridiculous odds, especially in a pot contested by 3+ individuals). Doubling that bet makes it a more serious decision. We like it for our cash games, but we don't do that for tournaments (just go with the standard rules).

    No, you didn't read it wrong. The standard rule is that the bet "may" be optionally doubled by the bettor - or by anybody else still in the hand; i.e., if the person with the open pair chooses to check or bet the small amount, someone else can still choose to bet the small or big bet size, or raise by the small or big bet size. See Robert's Rules (link above; Seven Card Stud section).

    We used to force the doubling of the bet size (or the player can choose to check) as a "house rule", but now we go with optionally doubling it. I just haven't updated that rule sheet in a while. Despite being posted, my group never actually reads it (or anything else I post, like blinds or re-buy rules, for that matter).

    Oh, and of course doubling the bet size doesn't apply to Razz (since that weakens one's hand). Robert's Rules doesn't mention whether it applies to Seven Stud High/Low or not; we play that it does.
     
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  13. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Classic. :wink:
     
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  14. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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  15. jldecarlo

    jldecarlo Super Moderator
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  16. 4ceps

    4ceps Well-Known Member

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    another option is to play the 8-game, or as i like to call it horsehot

    besides the horse games, the h stands for hold em no limit, o for omaha pot limit & t for triple draw (as in 2-7 triple draw, limit)

    in my cash game, we usually play it dealer's choice style, where each player can choose from the 8 games and we play for an orbit.

    another thing we do, is that for the stud games, we use a dealer ante only. that helps to reduce the number of denoms on the table
     
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  17. jldecarlo

    jldecarlo Super Moderator
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    Once comment on jdunford's rules. The 5th paragraph reads:

    I believe that this final sentence should finish "must be shown to collect the pot at a showdown."

    Thanks again for the info.

    L
     
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