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Gamblers suing Golden Nugget Atlantic City in alleged racial discrimination case

Discussion in 'Poker News' started by wartdog, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. wartdog

    wartdog Well-Known Member

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  2. NoFear

    NoFear Well-Known Member

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    "The next day, Golden Nugget officials restrained Shi in his hotel room while his belongings were searched without his permission, the suit says. Golden Nugget also allegedly held Shi in custody for more than eight hours, without any explanation, and denied him food, water and an interpreter."

    This one is disturbing. They treat this guy cheating before the facts.:stunned:
     
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  3. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Once GN officials realized that the problem stemmed from their own failure to even look at the cards before putting them in the shoe, I think that they would have wanted to swallow the loss rather than admit publicly that their procedures were inadequate. Furthermore, treating the players like criminals is shameful.

    LOL that although they were watching the game closely, they couldn't figure this out almost immediately. Management's focus on the likelihood that the players were cheating and without giving a thought to the possibility that something might be wrong with the game itself is not surprising in this era of "Nothing is my fault, let's find something or someone else to blame."

    Nevertheless, although I'm not a lawyer or an expert in NJ gaming laws, I think that GN might have have grounds to void the game. I just find it difficult to believe that they chose to treat their customers this way and refused to chalk up the loss as a lesson learned. I'm curious as to how many customers they've lost after this was made public.
     
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  4. cdnmoose

    cdnmoose Well-Known Member

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    So many confusing things.

    1. If the cards weren't shuffled wouldn't everyone see that the cards were all coming out consecutive?
    2. This is a sophisticated swindle?
    3. How does 41 hands last 2.5 hours?
    4. How does a shoe last 2.5 hours?
    5. Why would a supplier ship the cards already shuffled? This is such bullshit. The deck has to be verified by hand that it is complete and the cards have to be spread on the table before opening so that the camera can also verify that all the cards are present.


    So many WTF?
     
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  5. Schmendr1ck

    Schmendr1ck Well-Known Member
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    I believe that it is common practice these days for casinos to purchase pre-shuffled shoes of cards for games like Blackjack and Baccarat.
     
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  6. toonexile

    toonexile Well-Known Member

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    Really? I didn't know that. I can understand it from a 'time-saving' point of view, but how can they verify that they have a 'secure' 5 or 7 deck shoe? For example, how do they know that there are exactly 7 ace of spades, if they are not checking or displaying the decks for the cameras or security purposes?
     
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  7. cdnmoose

    cdnmoose Well-Known Member

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  8. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    It's funny, I bet the floor staff were watching so carefully for how the players were cheating they didn't even notice the pattern of the cards. Not to mention that they probably didn't stop the game because they wanted to catch them cheating so they could take all the money back.

    If the casino staff were stupid enough to keep dealing a game at which the players were winning every hand, I think the players should be allowed to keep their winnings. If the roulette wheel is coming up 6 every single spin, the casino should stop the game after 4 or 5 spins, not let it go for 41 spins and then declare that it was broken and all winnings are null and void.

    You'd think the first thing the casino would do if the players are winning every hand would be to get a new shoe.
     
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  9. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Interesting article.

    Until now, if an unshuffled batch is considered to be an arranged sequence. :stunned:

    GN should have sued Gemaco, not the players.
     
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  10. snooptodd

    snooptodd Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that they were coming out in the same order for each deck, but not in sequence (i.e., 2h, 3h, 4h, 5h, etc.), so they appeared to be random when in fact it was 52 cards in the same order again and again and again. Blackjack players probably wouldn't even notice, and would probably have a hard time taking advantage of it even if they did. But baccarat players, who the casino allows to track the game and even hands cards out to players for that purpose, would pick up on it very quickly.

    If they were coming out in sequence and the casino didn't notice after the first deal, then lots of people are idiots. All the cards in baccarat are dealt face up ... shouldn't even take one hand to figure out something is wrong.

    And if at any point everyone bet tie and it hit, they should have just stopped the game until they figured out what the hell was going on.
     
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  11. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    Interesting theory that they were in some random mixed order that was the same for each individual deck, but how would they have gotten in that order?

    Apaprently this is not the first time this has happened in AC.
    The Taj also put unshuffled cards into play

    According to this article, the cards were coming out in the order they would from a brand new deck, and nobody at the Taj noticed and did anything about it. So the Taj played out the entire shoe, lost $400k, and then got fined on top of it for being idiots.

    Perhaps because only 4-6 cards are used in each hand of Baccarat and the fact that suits would normally have no bearing on the game caused the people watching not to notice the obvious pattern. You really think they would notice, though.

    Oh yeah, the article also features a quote from your man Frank Scoblete :laugh:
     
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  12. cdnmoose

    cdnmoose Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Glider. Learning lots of interesting things today.

    "Given the game’s simple rules, playing mini-baccarat should go by fast. Playing eight decks should take only an hour or so, gambling experts said. However, in practice, eight decks of mini-baccarat can take three hours to play because many of the players tend to take a long time before placing their bets."
     
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  13. stinky

    stinky Well-Known Member

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    It probably took so long because they were switching dealers every other hand , scratching their heads as to why they are losing so much monies!!!

    Just went to first place on the baller sets list.
     
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  14. snooptodd

    snooptodd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they print them in sheets that way? Rather than printing them in sheets in sequential order, they are in the same "random" order?

    Anyway, you make a compelling case for the casino to be idiots with 4-6 cards coming out per deal. If they really had the eye in the sky trained on this game for 2+ hours and it took them that long to figure out that the cards were coming out in sequence ... just wow.
     
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  15. Jeff

    Jeff Super Moderator
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    Isn't holding someone for 8 hours against their will kidnapping? This is a hotel, not th ACPD.
     
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  16. BGinGA

    BGinGA Banned

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    Not in old-school Vegas; if they held you that long you were pretty lucky you didn't end up a hole somewhere in the desert. Dunno about Atlantic City... no nearby deserts. :)
     
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  17. pltrgyst

    pltrgyst Well-Known Member

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    Guess you've never heard of -- or diven through -- the Pine Barrens, home of the Jersey Devil.

    It's not an area you'd like to be dumped into without modern navigational aids.

    -- Larry
     
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  18. pltrgyst

    pltrgyst Well-Known Member

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    I think you might be really shocked by the Gestapo -like practices of the security staffs at places like Best Buy.
     
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  19. BGinGA

    BGinGA Banned

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    Or Wal-Mart, or even most suburban shopping malls these days.


    They did, filing suits against Gemaco and the involved players.

    Most interesting point is that GN claims the game was "illegal" due to the card snafu (I don't agree) -- but I wonder if they refunded any losses the non-observant players might have lost during the same time?
     
    #19
  20. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    I doubt it. I've read about casinos voiding slot machine jackpots because of a machine malfunction, but I've never read that the casino also refunded whatever amount of money the hapless player had fed into the machine prior to the alleged malfunction.

    I wonder whether there's a legal difference between declaring a game void because of a malfunction (e.g., unshuffled cards) and declaring it illegal.
     
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