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entries vs attendance payouts

Discussion in 'Tournament Structures' started by jermfrog81, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. jermfrog81

    jermfrog81 Well-Known Member

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    For those that host re-entry or rebuy tournaments do you pay a specific number of spots based on the total number of players or based on the number of entries? If you normally pay out 3 for 17 people and 4 for 18 and you had 15 unique entries with 4 re-entries for a total of 19 buyins, would you

    A.) pay out 3 spots since there were 15 people playing
    B.)pay out 4 spots since there were 19 total entries
    C.)it depends on if it were a rebuy or re-entry tournament(they are different)
     
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  2. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    The re-buy game I play in pays according to the # of unique entrants, not the buy-ins.
     
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  3. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Payouts according to the number of entrants is all I've ever seen, live and online.
     
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  4. Sal Bandini

    Sal Bandini Well-Known Member

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    In one work tournament I played they decided to pay out based on number of re-buys.

    It's not common, but it's your game, do it how you would like.
     
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  5. bpbenda

    bpbenda Premium Supporter
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    I believe in many casino re-entry tournaments, they payout based on the number of entries (not unique entries). When you look at the tournament screen, they do not typically distinguish between the two. In home games, I pay based on the total number of entries. So, 18 players and 4 re-buys equals 22 entries. If that changes the total number of payouts, I generally just give that extra payout his/her money back and boost the existing spots.
     
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  6. bpbenda

    bpbenda Premium Supporter
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    If you think about it from the perspective of the chips in play and the effect on the total prize pool, there is really no difference between a player who re-buys and an additional unique player who enters. If you had 22 unique players instead of 18 with 4 re-buys, you might initially spread them across three tables instead of two, but the impact on the chips in play and total prize pool is the same. Eventually, those three tables would consolidate to two, and where's the real difference? So, I don't see how it makes much sense to payout based on the number of unique entries, unless you just wanted bigger payouts. Of course, there are some caveats to this. If you were running a double or nothing tournament and everyone was allowed to and did rebuy, you wouldn't then payout the entire field (lol). As someone said earlier, if it's your tournament, do what you want. Personally, I prefer larger payouts, but I also understand that it helps the longevity of the game to pay out more players. I like to compromise, as explained above.
     
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  7. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    In a re-buy, when a player is KO'd, he has to re-buy right then (can't miss a hand) and stays in the same seat. In a re-entry, the player exits, re-enters the tournament, and is assigned a new seat. In a re-entry, a guy could sit out a few minutes and then decide to get back in.
     
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  8. bpbenda

    bpbenda Premium Supporter
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    Yes, that distinction between re-buys and re-entry tournaments is correct, but assuming the re-buying or re-entering player is paying the same amount for each entry (the entry plus the rake if there is one), then the distinction between re-buys and re-entries is not relative to how the prize pool should be distributed. The difference between a re-buy and a re-entry does matter to the player exercising such option, as to whether they get sat back at the same table where they lost their chips or get sat at another table where maybe there are less total chips in play, but again that is irrelevant to how the prize pool should be distributed. Not trying to argue, just remain relevant to the purpose of this thread.
     
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  9. CHP TD

    CHP TD Well-Known Member

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    we use the KISS principle. Keep It simple. Use percentages based on the number of players. This allows you to use in any tourney regardless of what sort.

    additionally then you can decide how friendly the structure is. for example the more friendly the more are paid. Payouts may be smaller but it gives the fish an ability to make the cash. In turn this encourages them to stay and as such youre home game grows! and through that so do your payouts.

    but its only an opinion... Like the others.

    Aussie Geoff

    2014 CHP World Series Champ.
     
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  10. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    Bpbenda, sorry, I should have done a better job of explaining the relevance to this post. If one is going to base payouts on the # of entrants, a re-entry should count as two separate entrants for purposes of deciding how many to pay (IMHO). A re-buy would not affect the # of entrants for that purpose. Of course if you are paying out based on the # of buy-ins, both should count.

    Some tournaments don't allow re-buys, but do allow re-entries. Some might allow add-ons. Some allow a single re-buy, some allow multiple re-buys. Some cut re-buys off at a specific point, and other tournaments allow you to re-buy even if it's only a partial blind (if anyone is that stupid).

    If the objective is to keep a game growing, I think more but lower payouts is better. There is no perfect formula, but I'm really curious to see what most people do on this. One reason is after our monthly tournament, I'm for the first time going to offer a re-buy tournament afterwards.
     
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  11. BGinGA

    BGinGA Banned

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    I've done it both ways. Neither is harder/simpler or more fair than the other.

    Paying out based on the number of entrants (initial buy-ins) promotes re-buys for those players who desire larger payouts. Paying out based on the total number of entries (buy-ins plus re-buys) promotes re-buys for those players who want an easier chance to win their entry money back.

    My only rule for paying out based on number of total entries is that the number of players paid can never be equal to or greater than half of the number of physical players.
     
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  12. luk_nuts

    luk_nuts Well-Known Member

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    Ive recently played in a bigger tournament in one of my local casinos. It featured 450 unique entries and 150 re-entries. They ended up paying 50 spots which in my opinion is completely unacceptable, since the players who reenter are considered as "new" players.
    I would have rather liked them to pay around 65 to 70 people in this case (even though I had a big stack), since it makes people who cash more likely to come back in the future.

    They also allowed to keep the seat after a player busted and immediately reentered (plus they had to pay the fee again) but thats not what we talk about here.


    Cheers!
     
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  13. Bruce M

    Bruce M Well-Known Member

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    For smaller home games of 2-3 tables tournament I have always us the number of physical players. That way at the start of the game you can tell everyone what they pay out % is to what place. If you had to also base it on rebuys then if you had an especially rough night of bad beats with rebuys the payout % could change mid game. I do not like that for a home game. For a home game I do not want anyone to feel that I am changing things mid game with anything that could be perceived as manipulation.
     
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  14. luk_nuts

    luk_nuts Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen a tournament where the final payouts have been published before the end of the rebuy/reenter period.
    So I dont see where the problem is to not decide how many players will get paid at the start of the game.
    There wont be any changes of the payouts mid game since there werent any fixed earlier in the night.
     
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  15. BGinGA

    BGinGA Banned

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    We post actual pay-outs after the re-buy/add-on period has elapsed. Payout percentages are always known ahead of time, but not amounts (or number of places) - since those are dependent upon how many re-buys and add-ons are purchased.
     
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  16. TenPercenter

    TenPercenter Administrator
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    +1 This for sure....
     
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  17. TenPercenter

    TenPercenter Administrator
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    This is true (I think it's the Bravo system... similar at most major casinos). I think it's an artifact of the "re-entry" model vs "rebuy" model. I dont necessarily believe this is the best method though, especially for home games. I'd prefer to set the payouts based on people playing in the tourney, and the prizes just grow in repsonse to rebuys and addons.
     
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  18. luk_nuts

    luk_nuts Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this method is that players with deeper pockets gain an unfair advantage over people that only go for one bullet since the richer are more likely to make the money by having multiple chances to grow a big stack early.

    That being said, I definitely prefer freezout tournaments with no reentries possible. In that case your "tournament life" is indeed on the line when you are allin

    But thats just me.
     
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  19. Trihonda

    Trihonda Well-Known Member

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    I don't often host re entry tourneys. But I play a lot of them. I would prefer payouts based on total entries. When I wn a tournament, I note the size of the field to denote how well I did. I almost always use the total entries category, since this is essentially the number of stacks I had to get through to win.

    Often times these tourneys allow rebuys and buyins through the first break, so a rebuy could essentially be the same things as a new player joining the game.
     
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  20. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    If the chip stack is reasonable, you don't have to re-buy to win. Most of the re-buys I play in require that you be out of chips to re-buy. Frequently the big winner didn't re-buy. Deeper pockets do give a player more chances to win, but it also gives them more chances to lose a lot more.
     
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