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Dealer's Choice Cash Game "ALL IN" question

Discussion in 'Cash Game / Ring Game Advice' started by Captn_All_In, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

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    Okay there was an issue in the Dealer's Choice side game last night. Cash game with nickel-dime-quarter type betting, some big pots, I am sure you have all played in these types of games. Anyways, I call 3 or 13 Red or Black, with is a variation of 7/27: its a high low game but only the cards of 1 color count. Betting was progressing fine until one player ran out of chips. I started a side pot and we all got another round of cards and bet again. It was at this point that one player notices the side pot and asks what it is, actually my first reaction was WTF? I started that pot nearly 5 min ago and you already put money in it. He says well since its a cash game the guy should get money out of his wallet if he wants to keep playing. The all in player says he doesn't have any more money. The guy with the problem then says the all in player should have to fold and that there shouldn't be a side pot. I was dumbfounded. The main pot was easily over $15 which the all in player probably had close to $3 worth of his chips in it. I didn't think it was right that he should have to fold because he didn't have enough chips to keep going, and everyone (even the guy with the problem) understood that the all in player had no right to the side pot but that didn't seem to appease him. I got upset because he was getting upset/agitated/loud/etc. and said that we were continuing the way I started with the side pot and the guy with the problem backed down, but never seemed satisfied with the results. Even though we both lost our cool a little bit we both apologized at the end of the night.

    So what do you guys think...

    Was it wrong to start the side pot?

    Should the all in player have been forced to fold because he didn't have any more money to continue?

    How do you handle all ins in high low games in a cash game? I know how I would have handled it if it was a tournament but this situation seems different for some reason because it is a cash game.

    Thanks for all you comments and suggestions, as always I truly appreciate any input because I want to avoid this kind of situation again in the future.
     
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  2. Matthew

    Matthew Super Moderator
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    TABLE STAKES.

    Go to an extreme, I'll bring 10 Million dollars to your game. Either cover my bet by reaching into your wallet or fold. I win every hand.
     
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  3. Damon

    Damon Well-Known Member

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    Tell the loudmouth that he'll be invited back when he learns how to play. Forcing a player to fold b/c he got into it with somebody that had a bigger stack than him is one of the more idiotic things I've heard.
     
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  4. hachkc

    hachkc Well-Known Member

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    Apparently he's unfamilar with the term table stakes.

    I just take the concept of table stakes as the way the game is played today (same with cards play) but is it something that should be explicity stated as a home rule?
     
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  5. Jonah 99

    Jonah 99 Well-Known Member

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    I have played at games where you had to 'match' the pot to play (Boo-Ray), there was no going all in, if you ran out of cash you were done.
    I never allowed games like that when I hosted, 'Table Stakes' only.

    Not sure what your game was exactly, did players have to 'match' the pot or 'pay' for more cards, if so those games do not fit in the 'table stakes' frame work. If your game followed standard poker betting, then your side pot was the correct way to handle it.

    I highly recommend not allowing 'Open Stakes' games in a friendly home game, unless you want to eliminate the 'friendly' part of your home game.
    Another thing is to have some written rules that everyone agrees to abide by, and then state that the games host as the final word in any disput where the written rules are unclear.

    Anyway, sounds like you have a spirited home game.

    Good Luck & HTH
     
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  6. jamby

    jamby Creativity Alliance

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    The side pot was perfectly appropriate and the right thing to do and the guy making the stink needs to learn a bit. You were the dealer anyway though and the game was your call right? Seems to me that should count for something in the event of a disagreement.
     
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  7. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    House rules rule! Whether table stakes or open stakes, everybody should be aware of what the rules are. When one of my groups used to play cash games, it was open stakes with capped betting; there was no all-in, but anybody could put more $$ on the table during the hand. The betting caps kept it friendly. I've never played in a NL game with open stakes, nor would I. That's movie lore, I think ("A Big Hand for the Little Lady").

    In this case, you did the right thing IMO. I'm glad that you and the dissenter (who should have been paying attention when you started the side pot) worked out your differences.
     
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  8. Jonah 99

    Jonah 99 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] House rules volumes 1 - 215
     
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  9. byline9

    byline9 Faux Clay Nation

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    What is it at your home games, Capt? Seems like it's always something there. :huh:

    Maybe you should cut off the beer sales after the third quarter. :)
     
    #9
  10. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

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    Thanks for the kind words and suggestions. I will definitely be defining and posting table stakes so there is no confusion in the future.

    byline9 you have a great point....my games have been filled with controversy and arguments lately as a result I am taking a break from poker. Mainly to get everyone to chill out and put into perspective what we are there to do and that is have fun while playing cards and lately I haven't have much fun.

    Does anybody have any house rules concerning cash games that I could possible start to incorporate?

    FYI: I plan on using the CT search function but I thought I might get some new ideas from the new people on the boards.

    Thanks again for all the comments!! I really appreciate them!!
     
    #10
  11. Jonah 99

    Jonah 99 Well-Known Member

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  12. dad604

    dad604 Well-Known Member

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    Unless the loudmouth learns poker rules, I wouldn't invite him back again (off course if he is a big fish, I would have him back again but I will let him know that as host, my rules are final if I am not in the pot.)

    Cash poker games are table stake unless otherwise stated. Too many movies again where the little old lady had to put up her ranch to call a big bet.
     
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  13. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

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    #13
  14. byline9

    byline9 Faux Clay Nation

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    In the casino it's about the money. But at home, it should be fun first (just don't forget about the money.) :)

    What's the saying, something about distance lending perspective? Maybe after a break everyone will be more appreciative of the work you are doing to host a fun time for all. And if not, you might decide to send some of your lineup to the bench. :wink:
     
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