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Chip tricks + Hot-stamps = Bad?

Discussion in 'Poker Chip Tricks' started by jdunford, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    I've been considering getting some hot-stamped T-molds for a while. Was curious if people with more hot-stamp experience could help me out. I just picked up an "expendable" sample set (colours I'm not interested in purchasing) and started doing thumb-flips, and noticed it damaged the hot-stamps pretty much immediately. After half a dozen cycles through the 5-chip stack, they all showed varying degrees of damage, from scratches in the stamp, to large pieces of stamp flaked away.

    Should chip tricks strictly be avoided with hot-stamped chips? Do you do thumb-flips and other potentially face-damaging tricks with your hot-stamped chips? Results?

    Perhaps my samples are particularly susceptible to damage. My samples have particularly delicate (shallow) hot-stamps. I've seen others that are much deeper; perhaps that's the issue?

    (not sure if this belongs in Poker Chip Tricks or Poker Chip Care... flipped a coin)
     
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  2. whataboutj

    whataboutj TAG extrodinare

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    I shuffle and do thumb flips with my hot stamped T-molds (the second set MSPatton ever made) and the stamps seem fine. I will look again closely to see if there's any damage, but for sure nothing that "Stuck out"
    J

     
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  3. tastic

    tastic Well-Known Member

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    I haven't noticed any such damage or flaking with my stamped T-molds.
     
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  4. SuckoutKing

    SuckoutKing Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like some sort of problem with the stamping or foil. If a chip is stamped properly even scratching the face of the chip with say a coin wouldn't bother it. Could you throw up a picture of the chips in question.
     
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  5. Felix

    Felix Well-Known Member

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    I can only speak for the PaulSon Private Cardrooms and their hotstamps doesnt get damaged easy. Especially not due to thumbflipping or shuffling them.
    If you look an the pic you can see it:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The left one is mint, the middle one hast been "shuffled to death, thumbflipped ... for half a year several hours a day and the one on the right has seen 10month of play at least once a week.
    I hope this is true for BCC hotstamps also because i want to order some.
    Sorry for the huge pic but somehow i wasnt able to put the thumbnal up.
     
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  6. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    Wow! Thanks. That middle chip has noticeably rounded edges, but the hot-stamp looks pretty good still. Just what I wanted to see/read.

    The hot-stamps I've been shuffling are the "Speakeasy" hot-stamp (wonder why?! :wink:)... and it has a rather large, flat hot-stamp region in the exact middle of the chip. This region gets rubbed by the edge of 1 or 2 chips during a thumb-flip, and seems to scratch easily. But it's generally not rubbed during shuffling...

    My samples are supposed to demonstrate what each colour of foil looks like on each chip base, and may have been made quickly (not pressed as deep or at as high of temperature) - not sure. I'll have to ask Michael. Just wanted to see what other people have generally found.

    Here's a stock photo of the stamp, for people who aren't familiar (taken from HoldemPokerChips.com):

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Felix

    Felix Well-Known Member

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    Yes...the middle chip has been shuffled really hard, i sometimes shuffled them with a lot of power, just to see what they can take. I have to say, that they can take a lot!
    i remember some pictures where a member got custom hs from bcc with a ship on them. There have been some issues, too. I think that large foil covered areas are not as robust as some small lines. maybe because the hs is a little deeper than the rest of the chip, so thet there is not soo much contact. If you look at my pics, you see that on the two other chips still is some excess foil around the letters. this wears off first, so the hs gets even sharper. If i ever do a custom die, i would only make outlines and no areas that are bigger than 1 millimeter. I think thats the trick!
     
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  8. Vince

    Vince Faux Clay Nation

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    How do you do that? :happy:
     
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  9. SuckoutKing

    SuckoutKing Well-Known Member

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    The key to the stamping whether for a small or large area is allowing the proper amount of pressure and heat for the Foil to form a bond to the chip. If that bond isn't completely made over the entire surface of the stamp you will get the problems you are having.
     
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  10. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    This morning I started with another base colour (Sherbet) and started doing thumb-flips, and so far, only 1 chip (out of 7) has damage on one side... so it may have had to do with adhesion between the stamp and the chip, as well.

    But my Charcoal samples are pretty much ruined. :cry: The only ones holding up reasonably well are the red and green foils; blue, gold, silver, and both holographic stamps are toast!

    Moving on to my Black samples. They seem to have been pressed a little deeper.

    (Besides, gives me something to do while I nurse this flu)
     
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  11. Felix

    Felix Well-Known Member

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    Power=Kraft...or am i wrong? Anyway, the force is with me!
    No, seriously if they are mixed, i pushed them together in a way that they got a lot of friction from their edges sliding along the faces of the chips!
     
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  12. whataboutj

    whataboutj TAG extrodinare

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    In my non profesional opinion it is a two fold issue:
    1. The larger surface area of the chips
    2. Those were probably some of the first stamps that Michael did so the process/"touch" wasn't perfected yet.

    I ado agree that all the HS chips I have seen with larger surface area seem to have issues

    Still love that stamp though
     
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  13. beekeeper

    beekeeper Creativity Alliance

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    Can you tell me what you mean by "larger surface"?

    I've had a custom stamp designed by Kari which I love. I'm thinking of having it used on T-molds (even though I bought hour glasses to stamp it on). Maybe this discussion thread will change my mind.

    BTW, can anyone give me feedback in my thread on this color combo? [See post #8] (sorry for threadjack)

    http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/custo...set-color-choices-help-sought.html#post724634
     
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  14. whataboutj

    whataboutj TAG extrodinare

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    I am refering to the larger surface areas of the hot stamps - the body of the two people dancing for the Speakeasy stamps as na example. In the case of the chips that had a ship HS'd on them it was the body of the ship that was the larger surface area and was coming off the chip. It seems like those larger surface areas are harder to get bonded to the chip correctly. It also seems like the larger the surface area the more susceptable it is to being scractched off (more opportunity for chips or other "sharp" items to rub against it).

    The kings crown HS is an example of a small surface area HS. All the lines of the stamp are small but together make up a killer design. Also all the denom stamps I have seen (and have on the T-mold cash set) are comprise of smaller surface area lines. The Pualson private card room stamps shown in this thread are also examples

    Again this is strictly my thoughts/opinions from reading various threads, seeing different chips, and having a set of hot stamped T-molds that I have been shuffling a stack of 10 consistently (every night) since Last September when I got them)

    I hope that helps
    J
     
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  15. beekeeper

    beekeeper Creativity Alliance

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    That's very helpful, thanks.
     
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  16. tastic

    tastic Well-Known Member

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    I will echo whataboutj's comments...when I was working with J5 on my custom hotstamp, he talked about both extremes being bad for sturdy/long lasting hotstamps...lines that are too thin will not stamp well as the foil may not fuse well...and areas that are to wide are susceptible to rubbing off with wear.
     
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  17. kmalsom

    kmalsom Well-Known Member
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    This is true and can be somewhat of a challenge when designing to find a compromise. Too thin is as bad as too thick. If the hotstamp is properly bonded though, the problem should be minimal, as long as the image is not too big.
     
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  18. jdunford

    jdunford Donkey hunter
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    I doubt shuffling would cause much of an issue, since that involves sliding between faces - and the hot-stamps should be recessed slightly and not touch anything. But with thumb-flips, you are sliding the face of one chip across the (sharp) edge of two others... much harder on the stamps.

    Alright... I've been thumb-flipping a stack of 6 Black T-molds for ~ 4 hours now. Only one shows some wear on one side; the rest look fine (or have very minor scratches)... so I think it has something to do with my Charcoal samples.

    But I agree with what everybody is saying: Probably not an issue with the "Tournament - No Cash Value" hot-stamps, Private Card Rooms, etc., where there are mostly fine lines rather than large flat surfaces to the stamp. In fact, skimming over the T-mold HS options, it looks like this is the only HPC stamp that would potentially have issues... but it looks so pretty (and my wife loves it)...
     
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  19. whataboutj

    whataboutj TAG extrodinare

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    Simply enforce a no chip tricks except shuffling rule when playing with the HS Speak Easy chips :)
     
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  20. mike33

    mike33 Well-Known Member

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    It's really nice to know that the guy who's stamping my chips knows what the hell he's talking about :cool:. Especially when both the denom stamps and my custom stamp will have quite a bit of foil.

    Thanks SoK...I'm still anxious, but hanging in there :wink:
     
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