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Chip additions

Discussion in 'Chip Breakdowns' started by celamantia, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. celamantia

    celamantia Well-Known Member

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    I have a new 650 chip set. These are a Greek-key (interlocking J) mold with labels that are obviously trying to copy the classic Paulson top hat and canes. Cheap 13.5 gram slugged chips (I feel like I need to always apologize for these chips with all the amazing sets on here) but I really like them.

    [​IMG]

    with the following breakdown:

    150 - White $1
    200 - Red $5
    150 - Green $25
    100 - Black $100
    25 - Purple $500
    25 - Yellow $1000

    My goal is for this set to handle both cash and tournament setups. I plan to eventually expand the set with another 500 chips (150 white, 100 red, 100 green, 100 black, 25 purple, 25 yellow) which should allow me to handle a two-table or even three-table tournament (T1000 or T1500).

    However, I have discovered that there are three more chip colors available in my mold and weight, although they have different labels. (The matching colors have identical edge spots, they are almost certainly the same base chip.)

    [​IMG]


    And I want them. Not necessarily because they are useful, I just want all nine of the colors available to me. I'll have to relabel them to match the rest of my set, which isn't a big issue. The question is what to label them?

    The remaining three colors are blue, pink and orange. Since I am getting these just to have them, I am only planning one one roll of 25 chips each.

    The pinks are easy. If I do ever have a three table tournament, I might see a handful of $5000 chips. I'm not sure what to do with the other two.

    I occasionally play blackjack with the chips, so a 25 cent or 50 cent chip seems useful. I use blue dice chips as a 50 cent chip now when teaching my daughter blackjack (she's about to turn 21). I want to gravitate toward a 25 cent chip because it just feels more useful than a 50 cent chip (four chips to the next denomination rather than two), but 50 cent chips would actually probably be more useful in cash poker games. I've seen orange chips used at 50 cents before, or I could use the blue at 25 cents.

    What to do with the remaining chip? The next size up is $10000, or even $25000, but as it is the $5000s will probably barely ever see play. But I could have that top end chip just as a display chip, or for fun "high roller" games. The other choice is to make the blue chip into either a $2, $10, or $50 chip for big blinds.

    So what would you do with the extra three colors?

    - 50¢ blue, $5000 pink, $10000 orange? (Short term I could use these almost as-is without relabeling them, just Sharpie a little ¢ on the 50s :happy: )
    - 25¢ orange, $50 blue, $5000 pink?
    - 50¢ orange, $5000 pink, $25000 blue?
    - $2 pink, $10 blue, $5000 orange? (Focuses more on cash games, just keep using dice chips for 50¢)
    - 50¢ orange, $5000 pink, and just don't buy any blues? (Which really means I'll buy them anyway and throw them in a drawer "just in case")
    - Just live knowing there are three colors out there I don't have and let the "completist" in me go hungry?
    - Something else?

    Thanks!

    Chris
     
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  2. celamantia

    celamantia Well-Known Member

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    And as a P.S., does anyone know if there is a real name for this set? The second ones I posted that don't have the Paulson-clone labels are called "Classic Clays" by Discount Poker Shop (although I doubt there's any clay in them). The main set were just called "Multicolor Edge Spot Chips" and seem to only be sold by IDS Online or one of their many eBay clones that all sell out of the same office. I've been calling them "Wallsons" but the ones properly known as Wallsons seem to be 9-gram china clays, not 13.5 gram slugged plastic, and match the Paulson label colors (these don't). They look like possibly ProGen molds but again wrong weight, so I have no idea what to call them.
     
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  3. QuiQuog

    QuiQuog Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't know what brand they are, but they're a Greek key mold. The bright colors remind me of the set that pokersepp posted in the custom chip gallery. I don't know if he ever named a manufacturer for them.

    Maybe you could use one color as a bounty chip. You could also use them as seating chips. Or maybe put different games on one side and use them to pick a game. Show 'em chips. Rabbit hunt chips. Non denominational chips for using them for whatever you want to that night.
     
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  4. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    You say you want these chips for both tournament and cash. The 50 and 10000 to me are useless because you have 25 (50 is only 2x) and 5000 (10000 is only 2x). The only logical time to go 2x is 500/1000, basically to reset the numbers. They could become 25000 and 100000, but you are talking about using larger value chips and I don't know that both would be helpful.

    I'd consider getting a second set for cash. I won't play cash games with tournament chips. Tournament chips are fantasy values. Over the course of a tournament, chips lose their value. That's not true in cash. Here's why that's a problem.

    I used to play in a tournament where a cash game was available afterwards. They used the same chips. Early in the tournament, the not so sturdy table got bumped while one player was raking a huge pot, and his chips went everywhere. After helping get the chips up, play continued.

    Later, that became the cash table. A player sitting in the same seat had the table bumped and some chips fells (don't know how many as I wasn't at that table when this happened). At the end of the cash game, there were more chips than cash in the pot. Some players had already cashed out.

    I doubt anyone cheated. The problem was a chip or two was accidentally left on the floor during the tournament, and they got picked up later in the cash game. Until the final cash out, nobody noticed. Most likely it was inadvertent chip migration. Deliberate chip migration is cheating, but they both have the same effect. There isn't enough cash to cover the cash chips in the game, so someone, usually those left to the end, pays for the error.

    People say you must be careful, and that's true, but it's a lot easier to not have a problem like that when two different chip sets are used. If the cash chips didn't look like the tournament chips, chip migration of all forms disappears.

    If the chips are undenominated, the idea that you use different values for them in each game might actually encourage cheating. If the T25 tournament chip is a $100 cash chip, someone could be tempted to hold one back since it's worth a lot more in the cash game.

    Since the tournament chips are the ones likely to be moved to cash games and not the reverse, I just won't play cash games with tournament chips. From the banker's standpoint, it's a lot safer to have two different sets since most of the time, the banker would have to pay for that error instead of the players. That makes it hard to get an intelligent banker, and no one wants a dumb banker. From a player's standpoint, they are way more likely to go home with all they earned in the cash game if the sets are different. From a hosts standpoint, it's easier to manage two games if there are two separate chip sets available. The only disadvantage is having to purchase two different chip sets. That's not a disadvantage on a website that is about poker chips!

    I just honestly see no real advantage of using the same set of chips for both.
     
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  5. celamantia

    celamantia Well-Known Member

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    Very good points. With the people I play with, cash games are tiny, though, so I could solve it by setting up the tourney blinds starting at 25/50 and leaving the 25c, $1 and $5 chips for any cash game. But it would probably be good to keep some of my dice chips too in case a cash game breaks out during a tourney.

    Of course, the real problem is I am still trying to get a local group to gel. As much time and money I've spent on chips and cards, we talk a lot about playing but have only managed to get together a couple of times. :sad:
     
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  6. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'd like to say, "Schedule it and they will come." I do understand that it's not that easy, but there is an advantage to putting an invitation out there and asking for RSVPs. A firm invitation is always better than "We should get together sometime to play poker." If the game doesn't go, you're no worse off for trying.

    Good luck!
     
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  7. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    I used to do an ad hoc monthly game. Attendance was all over the board. Then I started doing a specific day -- 3rd Friday of the month. Attendance blossomed. It's easier for people to put a specific day on the calendar. You might poll players for possible times before choosing. I picked that day because there are no major holidays it interferes with except occasionally Good Friday (we move it for that) and it didn't compete with any other games close to me. I play in another game that meets 2nd Saturday. I can easily plan my schedule around those two days, and others can too. For those who like Friday but not Saturday, they have mine. For those who prefer Saturdays, they have the other. Some will do both.
     
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  8. celamantia

    celamantia Well-Known Member

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    I think my thought was "I will either play a cash game or a tournament game, not both", so I wanted the chips to be able to span both ranges. But you are all right that if a cash game breaks out at a tournament it needs different chips; I think I'll hang on to my cheap dice chips for that purpose.

    As far as labeling, I think I'm just going to label the pinks $5000 for now, leave the blues with their "50" label (without the $) and use them as 50 cents when needed or as 50$ when I'm short on 25s or 100s, and throw the oranges in a drawer until I think of a better use for them. I may relabel all my chips with a custom label idea I'm playing with (the Casablanca Club label in the Chip Mockup forum).

    Thanks for everyone's input, especially about getting games scheduled!

    Chris
     
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  9. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    If you use a set for tournaments one and and cash another, that helps alleviate the problem. As long as every chip is accounted for, that works, but not everyone inventories their chips after every game. I do, so if I'm short, I notice immediately. I have a guy who is bad about putting chips in his pocket. He brings them back the next game, and I don't think he'd ever cheat. It's happened rarely, but it does happen.

    I used a non-denominated cash chip in a tournament one night when I provided chips for another tournament. Do to a larger than expected crowd, we needed more chips, so I broke out one color of the cash chips. One came up missing. I've never found it. But I also never did a cash game with those chips because I got custom cash chips before playing a cash game again. I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd needed those color cash chips -- it was a fairly high value chip for our group.
     
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  10. celamantia

    celamantia Well-Known Member

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    I count everything after a game. I even sort the cards and put them back in the box in the order they came out of it. Been fortunate so far but haven't really had many games yet so I'm sure it's bound to happen.
     
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  11. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    Celamantia, I also put cards in order! I cited one time I lost a chip, and that's in several years. It probably wound up in someone's pocket inadvertently. I actually think it's rare for players to take chips, and when it happens, the vast majority of the times it's an honest mistake. The guy who I mentioned puts stuff in his pocket -- it usually isn't playing chips, but seating chips.
     
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  12. celamantia

    celamantia Well-Known Member

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    I just ended up relabeling the pink 5000s (really more like light purple) to match my set, I'm just going to throw the orange and blue in a drawer for now until I have a specific need for them.

    Thank you everyone for your input!

    Chris

    IMAG6329_1.jpg
     
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