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Can someone explain why this is wrong?

Discussion in 'Online Poker' started by jerkwagon, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. jerkwagon

    jerkwagon Well-Known Member

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    I just read on highstakesdb.com about someone being arrested for Multi-accounts etc. Ive read online how some pros have done it and got caught. The community frowns upon it. Aside from used 3 accounts at one table. Why is this such a big deal? I can only think that its just tricking someone else and would be like wearing a disguise at a casino. Like Johnny Knoxville in his movie bad grampa. Are there any other major isssues i am missing that affects the integrity of the game?
     
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  2. spikeithard

    spikeithard Well-Known Member
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    arrested? 'fraud' maybe?
     
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  3. ShaggyPE

    ShaggyPE ChipTalk.net Supporter
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    IHMO it is purely from the perspective of sitting at the same table with a few accounts or entering a tournament with three accounts... OPTAH etc. As far as being JoeBob today and being JimJack tomorrow... I don't see a problem with that. But the OPTAH issues are the real issue.
     
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  4. QuickSilver75

    QuickSilver75 Well-Known Member

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    Well for starters, and it isn't a tremendous deal but if he was sitting playing three hands out of the eight he stands a bigger chance to induce a preflop fold if ever raised. He would also maintain a reasonable position for play. Every hand would afford at least one if his hands optimum position. I would be pissed if I was playing someone three times at a table. Almost like playing two or three guys all conspiring to cheat.
     
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  5. jerkwagon

    jerkwagon Well-Known Member

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    Ok thats what i thought, I though i was missing something there.
     
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  6. SixSpeedFury

    SixSpeedFury Well-Known Member

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    This in a nutshell. The person will have such an advantage playing multiple seats at the table.
     
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  7. jbutler16

    jbutler16 Old Man Sweater

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    you guys need to define what you're talking about. multi-accounting isn't literally sitting with multiple accounts open at different seats at the same table. it's maintaining multiple accounts on a single site and playing under different names at different times.
     
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  8. jerkwagon

    jerkwagon Well-Known Member

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    jbutler can you explain why multi-accounting is wrong then?
     
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  9. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Multi-accounting facilitates collusion and chip dumping, especially in tournaments, and it allows high-stakes players to play incognito. It's also against most sites' TOS.
     
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  10. jbutler16

    jbutler16 Old Man Sweater

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    tbh i don't have a firm opinion as to whether it's wrong in any respect. however, it is against the terms of service of the vast majority of online poker rooms. the rationale for such a rule is that players can gain an advantage against others by changing screen names more often than his opponent by retaining knowledge of other players' tendencies while depriving those players of knowledge of his tendencies since he is playing under a new name disassociated from the stats others have collected relating to his older screen name(s).

    i'm of two minds as to whether that's a valid argument, which is why i don't have a firm belief as to the intrinsic morality or ethics of multi-accounting. for one thing, it assumes online poker does or should mimic the live poker experience (at least to some degree) and even if that is true, such a standard is essentially impossible to administer.

    a quick google will return many threads on 2+2 where this issue was debated and where many well-known players threw in their two cents. most are of the opinion that it is wrong, but most ground that opinion in the fact that it is a violation of the terms of service of the various sites.

    EDIT: didn't see abby's post before i posted. i have little to know online tournament poker experience. how would does it facilitate chip dumping and collusion if the site already bars players from logging in through the same IP address?
     
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  11. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    Although I'm not familiar with the technical aspects, I understand that it's not difficult to spoof a different IP address, and presumably the person would be working with accomplices. Let's just say that where money is involved, cheaters can get pretty creative.
     
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  12. Trihonda

    Trihonda Well-Known Member

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    Think of the advantage in a hand, if you could see two other players' cards. You'd have way more info... Trying to put your opponent on a hand is WAY easier when you have extra info on cards already in play.

    Also, you get three times the odds of picking up great cards... But since you play the players, not the cards, your odds are good (even if you don't get cards) because of the first reason I mentioned.

    Already mentioned. Positional advantages.

    This is all kinds of cheating! Period!
     
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  13. jbutler16

    jbutler16 Old Man Sweater

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    yeah i agree with all that wholeheartedly. but if they're going to be spoofing IP adddresses, then banning multi-accounting does little (if anything at all) to prevent such a scam. just get a couple of different guys to register a couple different accounts and you've gotten past that problem with literally no trouble whatsoever.
     
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  14. jbutler16

    jbutler16 Old Man Sweater

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    this isn't what we're talking about, trihonda. we're talking about a player maintaining multiple accounts and playing under different names at different times.
     
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  15. JohnnyCnote

    JohnnyCnote Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK. Even though players may be barred from playing from within the same external IP address, it's only effective when using computers connecting via WiFi. It's impossible for the system to detect that multiple players are playing in the same room when using a cellular network. At least here in NJ. I play with my daughter all the time, and she's sitting next to me!

    That's why I'm sticking with micro stakes for now when playing on-line. While I wouldn't put it past them, I don't think people will go thru the trouble to win a $1 pot.
     
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  16. beerlightbroker

    beerlightbroker Well-Known Member

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    Wish I could see 6 cards preflop EVERYTIME . A lot of times these guys "Throw Fold" and I get to see a couple like that. Keep pitching your cards in like a softball guys. I DO NOT consider that angle shooting though.
     
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  17. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
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    True, banning an activity doesn't necessarily prevent it, but banning it in the TOS does make it easier for the site to close down all the offender's accounts and possibly confiscate the funds. The ban also makes the masses feel better.
     
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  18. jbutler16

    jbutler16 Old Man Sweater

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    what are we talking about banning, though? i'm just not convinced banning multi-accounting is necessary or even helpful in accomplishing any other goal. it doesn't prevent collusion or chip-dumping because two people with different accounts can still do that just as easily by opening accounts in their different names as they could by opening multiple accounts in a single name. chip dumping and collusion are also already against the TOS, so the same account(s) can be frozen and funds seized without the need to ban multi-accounting.

    if it's done for PR, then i guess i have no argument as that's a judgment call that the marketing and research people have to make, but i would imagine 90%+ of the casual players don't even know what multi-accounting is or why it is or should be prohibited.
     
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  19. grandgnu

    grandgnu Well-Known Member

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    Another issue you're all missing is that a site has to consider things outside of other players being cheated, specifically, the site being cheated.

    This can occur with multiple accounts in a few ways I can think of:

    1. Deposit bonus promotion: A player creates multiple accounts to receive these bonuses multiple times, or to become eligible for a promotion that is aimed at acquiring new players for the site.

    2. Affiliate Commissions: An affiliate might receive a one-time payment for each player they sign up. By having someone sign up multiple accounts the poker site is paying for acquiring that one player more than one time.
     
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  20. jbutler16

    jbutler16 Old Man Sweater

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    Gnu both of those issues can be easily addressed equally well with a policy that requires anyone with multiple accounts to disclose that fact and that the additional accounts are not eligible for promotions and that the affiliates are similarly prohibited from benefiting from multiple accounts. The current system is exactly as vulnerable as that system would be to such fraud.

    I'm always suspicious of a policy or law that prohibits action as a proxy for addressing secondary effects of that action. If the action itself is not intrinsically harmful, the secondary effects themselves should be subject to prohibition, but not behavior that is simply correlated with the secondary effects.
     
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