Welcome to the ChipTalk Community

Want to join the rest of the ChipTalk members? It is free to sign up today and unlock new features, discussions, and reduce the advertising.

Sign Up

Bet Size - The Never Ending Debate

Discussion in 'Home Poker Rules' started by justsomedude, May 26, 2015.

  1. justsomedude

    justsomedude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    120
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    So, we've really dialed in our home games. The blinds levels are perfect, the level duration are perfect, everyone is really digging the solid structure we have. However, the one issue that comes up EVERY game night, without fail, is bet size.

    I've heard a million different variations on the correct "bet size rule," but I don't know which is truly correct. The way we've been playing is thus....

    All bets must be at LEAST the big blind or a multiple thereof. For example:
    SB = 25
    BB = 50
    Raise must be at least 100.

    For the most part everyone I play with agrees with this. Where it gets confusing is when some one does not abide by an even multiple. For example.

    SB = 100
    BB = 200
    Raise Bet = 500 (or 900 or 1500... whatever!)

    I let this play, but some one inevitably yells out, "that's not a multiple of 200!!!!"

    I've also heard some people argue that the "multiple rule" only applies for pre-flop and flop betting. And that all bets are off (pardon the pun) on turn and river bets.

    Is there a written rule example of the bet size rule?

    Thanks in advance, poker gurus!
     
    #1
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  2. monkeylove

    monkeylove Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    [post deleted because of brain fart]
     
    #2
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  3. phaze12

    phaze12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    31
    i have never heard the "multiple rule" before. in any game all you have to do is raise atleast double the last bet. so at 100/200 blinds the 1st raise has to be atleast 400. it could be 401 if you wanted to.

    the only time it is diffrent is in cash games. in a 1/2 game if the 1st raise is to 10. the next raise could be to 18 if they wanted to because the 1st raise was actually 8 dollars. 2 call plus raising it 8 more =10.

    this will only happen preflop as the 2 bb is a forced bet
     
    #3
    bordizzle likes this.
  4. monkeylove

    monkeylove Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    #4
  5. bordizzle

    bordizzle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Fredneck, MD
    a "raise" must be equal to the last action immediately in front of the raiser - if the raiser is UTG, then a min of BB x 2... if the raiser is 3rd to act in this sequence: 1st bet is $100, 2nd bet is $250, 3rd bet must be at least $400 for a correct raise ($250 + the amount of the last action - in this case, a raise of $150)...

    as far as under the gun or opening raises go, they do not have to be in multiples of the BB... never have - unless that's yer home game rule...

    at $100 / $200 a correct min raise would be a min of $400 ($200 + $200)... $401 is also acceptable... as is $402... etc
     
    #5
    celamantia, phaze12 and justsomedude like this.
  6. TenPercenter

    TenPercenter Administrator
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    12,031
    Likes Received:
    426
    Location:
    Dallas
    In NLHE, the raise must be any size twice the previous raise (or bb) or higher. There is no rule that I know of that it must be a multiple of the bet/raise. It is common however to ask that it be a multiple of the bb chip. For example in a 50 cent one dollar game, the minimum denomination of a bet would be a multiple of $1. In my game we allow the small blind chip to be part of the bet.
     
    #6
    justsomedude likes this.
  7. catalyzeme

    catalyzeme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    28
    Next legal raise would be 900+ in your example, not 1100+. Min raise would be another 350, as that was the previous raise.
     
    #7
    justsomedude likes this.
  8. justsomedude

    justsomedude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    120
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    OK. This makes sense. Just found something similar at HomePokerTourney.com. Thanks for the info... this is something we'll need to discuss before our next game this Friday. The "multiple rule" some guys throw out is getting put to rest, once and for all!
     
    #8
    bordizzle likes this.
  9. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    12,586
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Iowa
    For reasons unknown to me, both the "multiple" rule and the "2x the total amount to you" rule are misconceptions that just won't die no matter how hard we try to stamp them out. Good luck!
     
    #9
    The Meal and justsomedude like this.
  10. bordizzle

    bordizzle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Fredneck, MD
    it's true, @abby99 ... i see even the most seasoned dealers make that same error on a 3-bet all the time...

    donk 1 bets $20
    donk 2 makes it $50
    donk 3 makes it $80 and the dealer says "must be at least $100"
    and i say "uh uhhhhhhh"


    but the "multiple" rule is a new one for me in NL / PLO... and i've been around poker -fairly hardcore- for almost 25 years

    maybe the players are used to limit betting?
     
    #10
  11. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    12,586
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Iowa
    I doubt it because limit doesn't work that way, either. Say the BB is $4, UTG raises to $8, UTG+1 can only raise to $12. I suspect it's just uninformed people misapplying a rule. Unfortunately, it's difficult to convince some of them that they're wrong.
     
    #11
  12. bordizzle

    bordizzle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Fredneck, MD
    Oh, I know how limit betting works :wink:

    I'm just tryna help figure out why his buds thought the raises had to be in multiples of the current BB :happy:
     
    #12
  13. TenPercenter

    TenPercenter Administrator
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    12,031
    Likes Received:
    426
    Location:
    Dallas
    By the way, just to incite discussion, I sometimes min raise the straddle. Meaning if its a 1/2 game, and the straddle is $4, I make it $6. And wait for the people to tell me that I have to make it $8. :)

    (my raise does not seem to adhere to the WSOP rule above though )
     
    #13
    phaze12 and bordizzle like this.
  14. monkeylove

    monkeylove Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    hahaha... so what I'm taking away from this post is "he who runs the game, makes the rules"... SPLENDID!
     
    #14
    Ozzie72 and TenPercenter like this.
  15. bordizzle

    bordizzle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Fredneck, MD
    Arg! Yer making my OCD hurt :twisted:


    Hahaa :wink:
     
    #15
  16. phaze12

    phaze12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    31
    @monkeylove it's called house rules. and believe me, some people come up with some doozies. so if youre new to a home game be careful not to "correct" others rules. i have made that mistake b4.

    @ten i love when someone does that. it's helps you figure out how knowledgable peps at the table are.
     
    #16
    TenPercenter likes this.
  17. Bloody Marvellous

    Bloody Marvellous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Gouda, The Netherlands
    If the straddle is $4, then that's the minimum bet amount. So if you want to raise, you need to raise to at least $8. On later streets the minimum starting bet is also $4.

    In $2/$4 limit (with $1/$2 blinds), if you straddle to $4, the limits become $4/$8.




    Also of note is an all-in bet less than the required raise amount.
    In No Limit an all-in bet less than the required raise amount does not reopen the betting.
    In Limit an all-in bet less than half the required raise amount does not reopen the betting.

    Example 1 (No Limit / 3 players):
    Turn: BB bets $12, CO raises to $28, Button moves all-in for $42.
    BB faces a raise of 30, so he can reraise to $58 or more ($42 + last legal raise of $16).
    If BB calls the $42, CO faces a raise amount of $14 (less than the required $16), so he can only fold or call, but not reraise.

    Example 2 ($4/$8 Limit / 3 players):
    Turn: BB moves all-in with his last $3. CO can fold, call the $3, or complete the bet to $8.

    Example 3 ($4/$8 Limit / 3 players):
    Turn: BB bets $8. CO raises all-in to $12. Button can fold, call the $12, or complete the raise to $16. If Button calls, BB can fold, call, or three bet to $20. If BB three bets to $20 that gives Button the opportunity to four bet to $28.

    Example 4: ($4/$8 Limit / 4 players):
    Turn: BB moves all-in for $3. UTG+1 completes to $8. CO moves all-in for $11. Button calls.
    UTG+1 can only call or fold here because the re-raise was less than half the Big Bet.

    Example 5 ($4/$8 Limit / 5 players):
    Turn: BB moves all-in for $3. UTG completes to $8. UTG+1 moves all-in for $11. CO moves all-in for $15. Button calls.
    UTG faces a raise of $7, which is enough to reopen the betting. UTG can fold, call, or three bet to $23.
     
    #17
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
    BenjaminDonut likes this.
  18. phaze12

    phaze12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    31
    bloody, just so you know, in a limit game the limits do not go up if there is a straddle. it is still the same limits, it is just a blind bet with the benefit of acting last pre flop.

    so in a 2/4 game, the stradle is 4. the next bet is to 6. not 8
     
    #18
    bordizzle likes this.
  19. Bloody Marvellous

    Bloody Marvellous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Gouda, The Netherlands
    I did not know that. I stand corrected. (or sit actually, cuz that types easier)
     
    #19
  20. rakrul

    rakrul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I've had that discussion a couple of times too and I was on your side then. However I discussed with a floor who actually knew the rules instead of just saying "no, min-raise is x", checked it with RRoP (which we use) and the correct minimum raise must be $8. RRoP states the same as WSOP - a straddle is the new minimum bring-in. A raise must be minimum 2x bring-in. Now I'm on the other side. Come and join me - it's much more fun over here when you have the rulebook on your side. :wink:
     
    #20

Share This Page