Welcome to the ChipTalk Community

Want to join the rest of the ChipTalk members? It is free to sign up today and unlock new features, discussions, and reduce the advertising.

Sign Up

Bank Record Keeping

Discussion in 'Cash Game / Ring Game Advice' started by Captn_All_In, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,833
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    FAUX CLAY NATION
    Okay so I host a lot and felt that I needed to keep track of the money coming in and going out so I thought I should develop a record sheet of some kind to do this. I have attached it.

    I'll wait while you download it...


    .
    .
    .
    .
    Okay so now that you have looked at it....what do you think??

    Does anybody use something similar?

    How could that sheet be made better?

    Would you as a player be offended if I kept track of your buyins and what you cashed out with at the end of the night?

    Any and all thoughts are appreciated!
     

    Attached Files:

    #1
  2. Irish Se7en

    Irish Se7en Insane Irish
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,176
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    "The State of Massachusetts"
    Why do you NEED to do this?

    I wouldn't want someone keeping track of my profits. I personally don't feel there's a need for it. If you need to do it for that night for book keeping reasons, sure but I would hope the shredder is right next to it. I just don't think there's a reason why someoe would need to keep track of my profits/losses. That's just me.




    Irish
     
    #2
  3. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    12,586
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Iowa
    As a player, I don't like it at all. As an occasional host, I don't see the need, at least not with the folks whom I play with.
     
    #3
  4. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,833
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    FAUX CLAY NATION
    Thanks for sharing those thoughts guys! I appreciate it!

    Now I do not keep these after the night is over, actually they all go into my wood stove, but the reason is that I was coming up short at the end of the night and was trying to figure out where it was happening.

    Any thoughts on how to keep from coming up short? Aside from count correctly at the end of the night.

    How would you guys run the bank if you hosted, or if you do host what do you do to make sure your not getting shorted at the end of the night?
     
    #4
  5. Diablo_Rojos

    Diablo_Rojos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Auburn
    I can understand if you host a cash game with a couple of tables and high stakes it would be nice keep an accurate tally on the bank. Especially for the jackasses that have to bring $100s along or $5 or $10s if you're really high stakes. I can see the need to keep accurate bank records, but for the long term I think it's probably more trouble than it's worth.
    I don't see what the point of having a 5 or 10 cent field in your spreadsheet, unless of course you're stakes are like 25c/50c 5c a and 50c/$1 10c a or something like that. Even then I wouldn't sweat 10cents and 5cents anyway.
    I would add these fields, and this is dependent on your stakes. $50 $20 $5, $1 and quarters.
    I need to keep a better bank and I only have about 6 people and we play 25c/50c
    with $40 buyin max.
     
    #5
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
  6. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,833
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    FAUX CLAY NATION
    Irish...in regards to your comment...Do I NEED to do this? Probably not, but when I came up short 3 nights in a row I figured I better do something to figure out why.

    Now the first night was only like .50¢, but the 2nd and 3rd night was close to $3, and this was after a few players were telling me to keep anything less than a buck!

    Now I verify everyones count before handing over money so it makes me think that I either handed out to many chips with a rebuy, or worst case...someones picking up my chips when I am not looking....which really seems unlikely in my garage, and with the players I have at my games, and the stakes we play at.

    I also know that some of you are probably thinking...big deal its $5 bucks, maybe... but if its $5 everytime over a year that could buy me a ton o chips...especially fauxs!!
     
    #6
  7. links_slayer

    links_slayer Master of the 3-Putt Par
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    11,222
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I don't think it's a bad idea to keep super-detailed records, especially if you're finding discrepancies between buy-ins and cash-outs. Nothing wrong with making sure no one's walking away with chips!
     
    #7
  8. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,833
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    FAUX CLAY NATION
    Well I do need those because I usually host .05¢/.10¢ NL, or .05¢/$1 Spread Limit. Most guys buy in for $10, sometimes $15 for the .05¢/.10¢ and $15 for the SL game.

    Usually EVERYONE brings a $20 and they never get the point that its hard to cash everyone out at the end of the night without a ton of change on hand! Actually I shouldn't say everyone, I have convinced 2 regulars to always bring $5's or $1's when they buy in. This is just like the guys who bring $100's to the higher stakes games.

    Like I have said my main goal with this is to just keep from getting shorted at the end of the night...if someone can tell me a sure fire way it will happen then I would gladly scrap this whole idea!!

    You know I just thought of one.....cash out before everyone else! :razz: Yea that probably wouldnt work for long, especially when the wrong guy gets shorted!!!

     
    #8
  9. luckychick

    luckychick Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,826
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Edmonton
    As to the first part of the question - personally, I wouldn't care. I actually keep a mental tally of this anyways - and sort of assume that others do too. I can see how some people might have a problem with it. If you do it, keep it quiet.

    As for making sure the bank is correct:

    The way we do it is there is one banker. The banker is responsible for all money going in and out. He counts out the stacks at the beginning, and takes care of any rebuys. At the end, everyone counts out their chips, and the banker goes around and checks the totals and then cashes them out. Any mistakes are absorbed by the banker.

    Mistakes in cashing out almost always are not due to the cash being incorrect, but rather the chips. Seldom is a $20 mistaken for a $21 bill, but it's pretty easy to grab an extra chip, or have stack of 19 instead of 20 or something. These are the type of mistakes I would be vigilant for.

    Edited to add:

    It is convenient for the banker to have $20 stacks (or what ever you rebuy for) prepared, and seperated by lammers, so he can just say - thanks for the twenty bucks; here's $20 in chips in useful denominations.
     
    #9
  10. Diablo_Rojos

    Diablo_Rojos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Auburn
    I think it's actually polite for the host to cash last. That's just me.
    Anyway I was just suggesting on the 5 and 10 cents. That would get annoying for me.
     
    #10
  11. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,833
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    FAUX CLAY NATION
    No your exactly right as host (and banker luckychick) I need to cash out last, I was just kidding about cashing out first!

    And as far as the 5/10 blinds, I would like to play for .25¢/.50¢ but not many of the guys I play with would buy enough chips to actually play that level of game (assuming that a "normal" buy in would be $25 or $30).

    Also luckychick, I don't share this info with anyone else at the game, this sheet was meant strictly to keep track of the bank. Most of the guys know who the big winner was and they will often ask that guy what he bought in for, but I never tell anyone who asks me because its not my place, I tell them to ask him!
     
    #11
  12. abby99

    abby99 Admin / Chip Magpie
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    12,586
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Iowa
    We used to have problems with shortages, most very small, but once it was a relatively large amount. That's when we decided that one person would act as banker (as in luckychick's game), and nobody is allowed near the chip case or the cash but the banker (who doesn't have to be the host, BTW, esp. in the case of side games during a tourney). No exceptions. Chips get counted out twice, and [knock wood] our banks have been right for about two years now. It's amazing how accurate the counts become when a single person is responsible for the bank.

    We suspected that the shortages were honest mistakes that arose when chips were counted out incorrectly, either at the buy in or when cashing out. Unfortunately a tally sheet wouldn't necessarily bring this to light, although it might serve as a tool for more careful counting.

    Now that I understand why you're considering this, go ahead and give it a try. Good luck!
     
    #12
  13. Irish Se7en

    Irish Se7en Insane Irish
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,176
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    "The State of Massachusetts"
    With the log or better yet a sheet, if it's going into the fireplace after the game, then I wouldn't have an issue with it.


    However this quote was why I wouldn't want it. Though after you went into further detail and that the record would be destroyed after again I have no problem.


    If the bank is consistently coming up short, someone needs to fire the teller.:wink:



    Irish
     
    #13
  14. Captn_All_In

    Captn_All_In Creativity Alliance

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,833
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    FAUX CLAY NATION
    Thanks for the opinions again guys!

    Irish, that question is exactly why I had/have doubts about using this kind of a sheet and I figure you guys are similar to some of the players in my games, and its a heck of a lot easier to ask you guys questions than it is my players!! Also if I don't like what you guys say I just put you on my ignore list!! :stunned: :wink: :razz: :happy:

    Seriously though, I probably should fire the teller!! I have been hosting tournaments and cash games for over 2 years and never noticed having problems, then I changed how I cash out- I used to use my bankroll as the "bank" and felt that was kind of wrong and that I should be buying in just like the other guys. That prompted this record tracking sheet (not the same as this, it just listed the start up and the ending count) and everything was kosher for a couple months then the last few have been short. That prompted me to make changes so that I could pinpoint where the shorts were coming from. I realize though it is probably a screw up in counting the chips and not something else. Also, I feel as though I know best how to count chips efficiently, at least better than some of the guys at my games, but for some reason these shortages are really irking me!! I figured that by looking at the start up money, and the buyins and then subtracting the cash out and the ending money I should be back to zero...you know its late, I need to get to sleep...
     
    #14
  15. Claypot

    Claypot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    This is what i have come up with over time and it suits my way of thinking and the way i run the nights. Its a little convoluted with interlinked pages but if you just fill in the yellow fields then it should calculate things o.k.
     
    #15
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
  16. Stocktrader

    Stocktrader Faux Clay Nation

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    New Yawk
    Put me in the ONE PERSON TOUCHED THE MONEY camp.
    That person usually cashes out last.

    My main question to Cap't is:
    If you keep records, that's great if you track every pot and every hand. Short of that, even if there is a discrepancy, there's no way to know where.

    That being said, I keep track of my buy-in and cash out for ME only.
    I'd be real uncomfy with someone else keeping track of my cash flow.
     
    #16
  17. Wylecoyo

    Wylecoyo Super Moderator
    Staff Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,717
    Media:
    3
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    369
    Location:
    Starboard Bridge-Wing
    If anyone is interested, I have attached the spreadsheet I use to track my cash games. We usually just keep track and square up every couple of months or so. This spreadsheet allows me to keep track of who has paid in what and where they stand overall - only absolute standing is tracked as buyins and rebuys are subtracted from "winnings" to show only "profit" or "debt" as necessary.

    Please let me know what you think.
     

    Attached Files:

    #17
  18. dad604

    dad604 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,431
    Likes Received:
    70
    I think it is a good idea. I have the same problem as you. Most of the time I am the host and banker. Also like you I have come up short a few times and the $'s do add up over a period of time. The other good reason is that someone can borrow from you as the banker and you can forget about it is not recorded.
     
    #18
  19. mrticsay

    mrticsay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Bolingbrook, IL
    It seems to me that what you are really wanting/needing is someone to double check the ins-and-outs.

    Your paper receipts are somewhat of a way to do that in the way casinos do, but who's accountable for any discrepancies anyways- as the banker, you are...and the paper receipts won't change the discrepancy.

    So, you may want to have a 3rd party (not the banker or the cashing party) double check each settlement (and it doesn't have to be the same person for every transaction). Hopefully, they'll catch things. But if they don't, you'll still have errors.

    The last option is to invest in some RFID chips and some readers- one at the cash drawer and one at the exit door. :wink:
     
    #19
  20. Harlequin011

    Harlequin011 Sin City Showdown Host

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    7,012
    Likes Received:
    345
    Location:
    In Cincinnati, Out of Position
    The casinos keep a stack of chits that have various numbers on them. 1, 5, 25, 50, 100, 500 etc...

    what they do is drop the chits in a cup or bowl or whatever when you buy in. Say you buy in for $200. They grab (2) 100 chits and drop them in the bowl. When the total is 500 the pull the chits and replace with a 500 marker.

    That way you know what has been paid out. When money is loaned out, I have a chip the represents $100. And I place it in front of the player who took the loan out. I'm always the one borrowing so it's not a big deal. :embarras: But it keeps things straight.
     
    #20

Share This Page