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ASM Poker Chip Base Colours - Day-Glo or Weighted? - by StevenH72

Discussion in 'Product Testing' started by StevenH72, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    ASM Base Colours – Day-Glo or Weighted

    by StevenH72 <O></O>





    [​IMG]

    Manufacturer: American Standard Molding (ASM)
    Retailer(s): www.pokerchipsonline.com<O></O>
    Average Price:$0.40 - $2

    <O></O>
    There have been many discussions regarding the implications of choosing Day-Glo (DG) colours as Base colours when creating a custom set with ASM. In this article we examine the differences you might find between the ASM chip materials.

    Differences in Mass

    It is well documented that the DG colours have a smaller mass than that of a standard base colour, and we also know this can be attributed to the existence of brass flakes within the standard Base Colours. CaptLego (2005) found that standard colour ASM chips have a mass of 8.5-8.8g (10 chip mean across molds), whereas Jonah 99 (2008; found DG Base colours had a mean mass of 7.27 grams, whereas Standard Base colours had a mean mass of 7.75g, which is roughly a 0.5g difference. From my own set, I found a mean mass of 7.37g for DG colours, and 7.97 for standard colour, so a difference of 0.6g.<O></O>
    <O></O>
    However the mere masses of the chips is not what I am interested in discussing in this article. <O></O>
    <O></O>
    There seems to be some confusion/ debate as to whether DG base colours are more brittle than standard Base Colours, and whether the weight difference will be noticeable during normal use, which I feel, are the questions which matter when contemplating whether to go for DG Base colours for your own custom set. After all it is one thing to say “well DG base colours are between 0.5-0.6 g lighter than a standard colour”, but in my opinion it is the qualitative discrepancies or how we interpret these differences which really matter when designing a set.<O></O>
    <O></O>
    Firstly, yes, when comparing a DG chip with a standard chip you can notice the weight difference, which some may feel creates a problem when creating a set mixing DG and standard Base colours,

    However from my own experience with an ASM set which mixes both DG Base colours, and standard Base colours, the difference between the masses is alleviated when the chips are in stacks. Under normal conditions, where the chips would be in stacks on the table, the difference in mass does not create a problem and is not noticeable when betting/ shuffling/ playing with the chips. Where shuffling is involved the weight difference barely makes a difference, however in my opinion the mold the chips are made with is a much bigger influence (but thats a topic for a separate article).
    <O></O>
    <O></O>
    Differences in Strength

    Secondly, are DG Base colours more brittle than standard Base colours? In short the answer is YES. From a rather crude experiment I carried out, DG chips do break easier than standard chips. Although I could only break the DG chip using the “3<SUP>rd</SUP>” stage of my experiment.


    The Chips that I could break - DG Green, Peach, DG Orange
    [​IMG]
    <O></O><O></O>
    Stage 1 – Hold chip between thumb, Index finger and middle finger, with the thumb placed central on top of the chip, and 2 fingers on either side of the bottom of the chip. Apply pressure to the chip using thumb, with fingers as stabilizers.

    Stage 2 – Create a fist shape with both hands and position half of the chip on the middle phalanx of the Index finger, placing the thumb on the upper half securing the chip, hold the other half of the chip in the same manner using your other hand, and try to break the chip.<O></O>
    <O></O>
    Stage 3 – hold half of the chip in one hand, using the same technique a stage 2, but using the palm of your free hand; apply pressure down on the chip.<O></O>
    <O></O>
    Standard colour chips survived all 3 stages of my test; however DG chips broke towards the latter part of stage 3, with “substantial” pressure needing to be applied in order to break them.

    Stages 4 & 5 of the DG v Standard base colour testathon looked at the chips brittleability rating when being dropped/ propelled onto a hard surface (Clay tiles).

    Stage 4 - hold chip in hand (with edge of chip pointing vertically down), at shoulder height, with arm fully extended, and release chip, with no motion from the arm.

    Stage 5 - Hold chip as in stage 4, however when releasing chip, drop arm (still full extended) to the hip and drop chip (propelling chip to floor).

    From Stage 4, no chips were damaged, I performed the test with 4 DG ASM HG mold chips and 4 standard ASM Horse Head (HH) mold chips. I also performed the test with 1 standard ASM HG chip (to cross reference for any inter-mold variations).

    Stage 5 created interesting results.

    Day-Glo chips - 2 chips showing significant damage: Peach; chip off of the edge of the chip & DG Orange; split through the middle of the chip but no separation of the chips. 2 DG Green chips showed slight "wear" on edges but no significant damage. The damage to the DG chips is not easily visible, please see the close ups below, for the specified damage.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Standard chips - 2 chips showing significant damage: 2 chips show crack & complete separation held together only by inlay. 2 chips show slight wear but no significant damage.

    [​IMG]

    These results (whilst erratic) show no relationships between DG & Standard, or even within the chip categories themselves. Of course there are many variables to be taken into account for these results: How the chip landed, at an angle of the edge, straight on the edge or flat on the face of the chip. Human error must also be taken into consideration, I tried to keep the force of Stage 5 consistent but there may have been changes large enough to affect the condition of the chip post-drop. These types of variations could have affected the results.

    The most surprising aspect of this test was that the Weighted chips actually fared worse than the Day-glo chips. However being on a different mold and having inserts may have affected this (both chips split from the edge of an insert). I repeated the test with 1 Lt Blue weighted solid HG chip, (had no more extras) which showed a chip from the edge of the chip from stage 5, similar to that of the DG HG chips.

    [​IMG]
    <O></O>
    I think this shows that whilst DG chips have a higher “brittlebility” rating, they will not succumb to any more damage than a standard chip under conditions of normal use or even when the accidental spillage of chips. And *touches wood* my DG chips have not chipped/ broken as of yet using them in any of my tournaments. Hence I do not feel the added brittleness of the DG chips should influence your decision on choosing them for your own sets. <O></O>
    <O></O>
    Conclusions

    In my opinion from what I have read, and from my own experiences, where it matters I do not feel DG colour chips have any disadvantage over a standard colour chip. Yes they are lighter, and Yes they are more brittle, but these facts do not hinder the performance of these chips, and certainly do not detract from the joys of using high end chips at your own games.

    I for one would definitely endorse using a full DG Base Colour chip set, or DG base colours in any custom set.<O></O>
    <O></O>
    Please find below some links to threads discussing the mass of ASM chips and the implications of DG base colours.<O></O>
    <O></O><O></O>
    http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/poker-chip-general/10735-pokerchip-weights.html <O></O>
    <O></O>
    http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/custom-chips-general/53874-asm-solids-question.html <O></O>
    <O></O>
    http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/custo...-day-glo-vs-regular-color-please-comment.html <O></O>
    <O></O>
    <O></O>[FONT=&quot]<O>Many chips lost their lives through the creation of this article, it would be greatly appreciated if you all could take just 30 seconds out of your day to remember the lives of the chips lost during these times.</O>

    [FONT=&quot][​IMG][/FONT]
    [/FONT]
     
    #1
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  2. Wooderson

    Wooderson Well-Known Member

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    Re: ASM Base Colours - DG or weighted?

    Nice writeup! I'd like to see Stage 4 and 5 tests though: Dropping the chips from shoulder height (let's call it 5' ish) onto a hard surface and throwing the chips at the same surface.
     
    #2
  3. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    Re: ASM Base Colours - DG or weighted?

    I could try it (I will check how many extras I have left, that I could afford to "sacrifice" and see what I can create)

    *I have a very boring day left ahead of me, so don't be surpried if the article has been edited within the hour"
     
    #3
  4. detroitdad

    detroitdad Well-Known Member

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    Re: ASM Base Colours - DG or weighted?

    Excellent post. I have been concerning a DG solids cash set (prolly not, but ya never know)
     
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  5. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    Re: ASM Base Colours - DG or weighted?

    Stages 4 & 5 added, with scans of the results.
     
    #5
  6. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    Re: ASM Base Colours - DG or weighted?

    Greg, anything happening with this?
     
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  7. ipgyst

    ipgyst Well-Known Member

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    Re: ASM Base Colours - DG or weighted?

    It's on the front page when I log in, so you have been published. Congrats. Nice article too.
     
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  8. Lottery Larry

    Lottery Larry Well-Known Member

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    bowing head, hat off, in memory

    At least they gave their lives for a noble cause...
     
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  9. spamproxy

    spamproxy Creativity Alliance

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    Is there any discussion or thinking out about putting inserts into day glow base colors? does this increase any of the potential problems?
     
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  10. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    hmmm good question, I don't actually have any DG chips with edges myself, so I cannot give a definitive answer. All I know is that I am going to have some when I finally get round to ordering my add-on set, I have never heard any problems from other threads, so I would assume that there wouldn't be any issues with using this within you set.

    In regards to mass issues, I'd say the Standard inserts would increase the mass (albeit slightly) of the chip, minimising the discrepancies.
     
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  11. JJ83

    JJ83 Well-Known Member
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    After looking at this on the CT start page, I realized that the ASM website link is outdated (i.e. still www.pokerchips.com). It prolly doesn't matter to our members but any guests browsing through this site might find themselves in the wrong site for custom clays. So maybe a small update is in order :)
     
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  12. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    well spotted sir.....updated :)
     
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  13. keenekev

    keenekev Well-Known Member

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    oudated again....lol
     
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  14. brains613

    brains613 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the write-up, Steven. I know you did it some time ago, but I think it might help some new members. I didn't even know about it, until you pointed it out in the E&C thread. I have been trying to figure out color options for mine, and now feel confident with my choices. Thanks again.
     
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  15. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    Your welcome, if anybody has any other questions I'd be happy to try and answer them, and update the article, to create a plethora of information regarding one of the most critical questions when designing an ASM set.
     
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  16. ellased

    ellased none more black.
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    is this still an issue for DG colours?
     
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  17. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    What issue are you referring to?

    As far as I am aware they are still lighter than the weighted base colours.
     
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  18. ellased

    ellased none more black.
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    are they still brittle? or has asm made some changes i'm not aware of?
     
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  19. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    I wouldn't say the chips were brittle, it takes quite a bit of force to snap the DG chips.

    I wouldn't let this factor deter you from using them in a set, I have never experienced (or read of) any DG chips breakages from normal use.

    But no, I don't think ASM has changed this at all.
     
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  20. StevenH72

    StevenH72 Creativity Alliance

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    To add to this, it could be a differenc in mold that causes the "brittleness" of the chips. The DG chips were HG mold, whereas weighted were HHR mold.

    As it is well documented (on CT) that HHR chips have a greater mass than HG chips, it could be this lower mass which makes them more brittle, rather than the base colours.

    But again, It is not enough of a factor to let it affect your decision imo.
     
    #20

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