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1st Tourney with CPS chips: 20-man; trying to do deep stack

Discussion in 'Tournament Structures' started by kiva, May 2, 2015.

  1. kiva

    kiva Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2010
    Likes Received:
    Hey Folks

    Our group plays cash about 95% of the time and when we do tourney, it's usually single table, T5000 starting stacks, and we use BlindValet.com to set up the structure. It's been ok thus far, but this tourney should be different. Our group wanted to do a social BBQ and "deep stack" tourney so we're giving it a try.

    We should have 20 people, maybe up to 25. Minimum will be 15 (if a bunch no-show...who knows). Other details

    $40 buy-in + $3 or $4 for all you can eat BBQ.
    1 rebuy per player during 1st 90 minutes of play
    1 add-on for $20 for 1/2 of starting stack (not sure about this)

    Starting at 3pm in the afternoon, so there is flexibility on how long we play. There will certainly be a cash game after the tourney is over, so I was thinking an end time of 9-10pm, giving 6-ish hours of play.

    So, my questions...

    (1) Chip stacks: I have the following chips on hand (I originally asked for feedback on buying enough chips to be able to run a game for 40 people. I know we won't need the biggies (I figure), but thought I'd list them for giggles:

    250@ 25
    250 @ 100
    200 @ 500
    200 @ 1000
    200 @ 5000
    200 @ 25000
    225 @ 100,000
    100 @ 250,000
    125 @ 500,000

    So, how about $20k stacks - 12xT25, 12xT100, 3xT500, 12xT1000, 1xT5000?

    BlindValet calls for: T25x8, T100x8, T500x6, T1000x6, T5000x2


    (2) Blind Structure: using BlindValet and 30 minute blinds, players start with M=267:

    20,000 / 40,000 <--(M=approx 13)
    40,000 / 80,000

    Thoughts on this structure? I don't like the doubling of blinds, but that only happens at 50/100 to 100/200. Could always throw an extra one in there. Also, if it gets that far, could do 30k/60k after 20k/40k (?)

    After reading the structure article, I think the above is ok? I think not doing antes is a good idea so as to not complicate things (though I suppose they would be advantageous for the better players who know to calculate M).

    (3) Payouts: assuming 20 players, I saw this payout that seemed ok:


    It is a social game, overall, so I wanted to be somewhat friendly in payouts. Thoughts?

    Other than that, since there will players / people I don't know in my house, I will be more firm about rules, with a few in particular:

    sloppy drunks will be asked to leave: no refunds
    berating another player will cause you to sit out an orbit
    I have final say on all hand disputes. If i'm involved in the hand or can benefit from the outcome, I will have already selected my backup (a weekly regular)

    Any other rules other than basic table rules to make sure and reinforce in a game of 25% strangers / friends of current players?

    That's it for now, I think. I should have posted this a few days ago, but busy week. Game is tomorrow, so i snooze I lose re: feedback.


    bordizzle likes this.
  2. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2011
    Likes Received:
    Kiva, first, I think it's a very playable structure. Blinds double from 25/50 to 50/100 to 100/200; 400/800 to 800/1600; then go up 2.5 times from 2000/4000 to 5000/10,000. I think it's very likely to end by round 12 if you have 25 players.

    Here's some tweaks you could do instead. The big one I'd do is do 4000/8000 instead of the 5000/10,000. I think that would make no real difference in time, but make a much better progression.

    I've done a 6 hour tournament. Are you planning breaks? If so, your cash game might start at 9, but it's not going to include the last several players. I think you could have just as good a tournament by planning on 5 hours with this structure (only showing small blind, but BB is 2x) w/20 minute blinds (enough to theoretically make a complete orbit each round with tables of 10 (assumes no re-buys -- it's easier to calculate without re-buys):
    10000 *** Should end here or
    15000 *** Here

    My info shows ending in the 5:00 to 5:20 playing time range. The blind structure is more gentle, and rounds are a shorter so there are more of them. About 90% of your players are likely to make it to the 3 hour mark, so they get good bang for the buck.

    If you take a 30 minute dinner break and 5 minutes for color ups, this should be over by 9:00 pm if you start at 3:00 pm

    Now, if you stuck with the BV schedule with that one tweak I suggested, it's still a good tournament, but probably not over until at least 10 pm.
  3. BGinGA

    BGinGA Banned

    Nov 23, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Atlanta, GA
    1) Your proposed T20K starting stack size and breakdown (12/12/3/12/1) are just fine.

    2) The listed blind structure could use improvement, imo. For your time frame, I'd go with this one featuring 400 starting big blinds and an average 42% blind increase (all within 33%-50% range).

    24 players, T20K stacks
    20-minute blind levels
    sb bb
    L1 25 50
    L2 25 75
    L3 50 100
    L4 75 150
    L5 100 200
    L6 150 300
    remove T25 chips
    L7 200 400
    L8 300 600
    L9 400 800
    L10 600 1200
    L11 800 1600
    L12 1200 2400
    L13 1800 3600
    remove T100 chips
    L14 2500 5000
    L15 3500 7000
    L16 5000 10000
    L17 7500 15000
    L18 10000 20000 **
    L19 15000 30000
    L20 20000 40000
    L21 30000 60000
    L22 40000 80000

    ** unlikely that the event will last past L18 (6 hours play time)

    Counting breaks, you will be done no later than 10pm with a 3pm start time (and most players will be finished by 9pm). Your players will feel less rushed using a relaxed 20-minute blind structure compared to 30-minute levels combined with very large blind level increases.

    3) For a friendly home game, I'd use a progressive scale paying 25% of the field size:

    15-17 players: 4 places - 50%, 30%, 15%, 5%
    18-21 players: 5 places - 42%, 29%, 17%, 9%, 3%
    22-25 players: 6 places - 37%, 27%, 18%, 11%, 5%, 2%

    If you don't want to deal with $1 bills, just round the prize money numbers to the nearest $5 increment.
    Last edited: May 2, 2015
  4. kiva

    kiva Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2010
    Likes Received:
    thanks so much, guys. I will run these by our other regulars and see which way to go. I like both structures and they seem to achieve a similar goal.

    Again, much appreciated!
  5. bordizzle

    bordizzle Well-Known Member

    Feb 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Fredneck, MD
    i used to have monthly tourneys at my house... through trial and error, i've found that when the big blind is roughly equal to one player's starting stack, that's about the time the tourney will wrap up...

    in your case, with a 20k starting stack x four tables, your tourney should wrap up around the 40k/80k level...

    general rule of thumb, of course :wink:

    looks like fun! good luck!!
  6. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2011
    Likes Received:
    To determine when a tournament ends, there are two formulas I use, and they usually wind up one round apart, but could be 2 if using antes. These are in no real order:

    When the BB = 5% of the total chips in play

    When the SB+BB+Antes = 5% of the total chips in play

    I put the information on a spreadsheet and I find that tournament end within 1 round of the projected ending 80-90% of the time.

    Above, note that BG and I have the tournament ending when the blinds hit the 10,000/20,000 level. The difference is his has 6 hours of playing time while mine has 5 hours of playing time.

    I based my 5 hours on the 3:00 start time, a total of an hour in breaks, and a desire to end at 9:00. If you want 6 hours of playing time, where mine goes from 5,000/10,000, instead use a 4,000/8000; 6,000/12,000; and 8,000/16,000 for 3 additional rounds to end at the same time.

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