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1000 Pharaoh's set advice for cash and tournaments

Discussion in 'Chip Breakdowns' started by Vlad Urshanskiy, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Vlad Urshanskiy

    Vlad Urshanskiy New Member

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    Want to upgrade my old 300 chip WPT set from years ago and get something decent. Don't like the ceramics and not rich enough for Paulson's. So China clays it is. I really like Pharaoh's labels and colors aren't bad, even though not as vibrant as Paulson's. Got the sample set and will be pulling the trigger.

    I would like to cover both cash and tournament setups for 10 people max.

    Cash games will be $0.25-$0.50 or $0.50-$1.

    $0.25 160
    $1 160
    $5 100

    With $700 in play, I should not have any issues with not covering rebuys as the stakes tend to be small.

    Tournamets will be T10000, around 4 hours, no add ons, with rebuys for 90 min.

    T25 160
    T100 200
    T500 60
    T1000 120
    T5000 40

    That should give me enough to do starting breakdown of 16/16/4/6. I plan to color up T25 with T100, T100 with T1000, and T500 with T111/T5000. This should still leave enough T5000 for 10 + rebuys.

    Please let me know if my thinking is on the right track as I'm very new at the chip buying. Thank you!
     
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  2. atomiktoaster

    atomiktoaster Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to CT! It sounds like you're pretty close so far.

    For the cash set, 1 rack of quarters is fine for a single table. I would redistribute ALL of those to $5s. It would be nice if there were a $20 available (or a $10 or $50), but we're stuck with the tournament set using the T25. You want to have 2-3x the expected bank in chips and $700 seem a little light.

    For the tournament set, 16/16/4/6 is great. It gets a lot of chips on the table. You can probably cut the T100s down to 160 as well, and just color up with T500s at the first break. If you make it 160/160/80/140/40, you can just make it to 2 full tables with stacks of 8/8/4/7. If you never expect that to happen, consider adding a barrel to the T5000s in order to support very deep stacks (T30k?) (if you want that option).

    Knowing more about the size of each of your games could help pick the right breakdown.
     
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  3. Vlad Urshanskiy

    Vlad Urshanskiy New Member

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    Thank you for the advice! I'm just getting back into poker from a few years off. Never really hosted much before, just played.

    We have a neighborhood game going, looks to be up to 10 for now, but potentially growing to 2 tables in the future. I'd like to future proof the set as much as possible, so the 160/160/80/140/40 suggestion is great and I'm taking it. Also, will take lowering quarters idea.

    Don't think I will need to go beyond T10K. I can just make blinds slower if I want a longer tourney.
     
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  4. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    Vlad, I have a slightly different suggestion. Tournaments -- 160/200/50/100/90. You don't need 2 500s for colorups since half the players coloring up to the 500s will have 1000, but you need some extra 1000s. This will allow up to 25K in chips for 20 players. Right now you think you don't need more than 10K, but plan for more than you think you need. That's 600 chips. You could do fewer 100s and add some 1000s, as I find more 1000s to be helpful (maybe 160/160/50/130/100). It will make a more flexible set and allow for many more re-buys.

    For cash set, 120 ($.25); 120 ($1); 120 ($5); and 40 ($20 or $25). It gives you a much bigger bank ($1550 - 1750) for 400 chips. It's still at least 12 for a 10 player table for each of the lowest values.

    For two sets with a 20 player tournament set, 1000 chips is not a lot. Therefore you need to be as efficient as possible. In either game, having too few chips to add more places puts serious limits on the game. I think it's better to have fewer chips per player but more denoms to increase the total bank.
     
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  5. atomiktoaster

    atomiktoaster Well-Known Member

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    I think I like your tournament breakdown a bit better than mine. You could do 20 players at 8/8/2/3/1/1+ with that set.

    The cash set advice is great in the abstract, but the CC Pharaohs don't have a $20 or an NCV chip. Possible options include custom labelled nickels or a barrell of Paulson suits mold non-denom Pharaoh black chips. NCV plaques would be sweet, but probably too pricey. If there's a second china clay set that the OP likes, using that for cash would take care of things as well. Barring any of that, the last 20 quarters need to be moved to the $5s to gain a decent sized bank.
     
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  6. atomiktoaster

    atomiktoaster Well-Known Member

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    Meant to edit.
     
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  7. Sal Bandini

    Sal Bandini Well-Known Member

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    I probably said this in other threads but will repeat it here. Why do people insist on limiting themsevles to hard number of chips, like 1000? OP, I'm not picking on you but why not buy a few extra chips rather than limit yourself?

    I know the standard answer is that birdcages or other cases hold 1000, but so what? Put the extra in a chip storage box. You now have more flexibility if the situation arises where you wish you had the chips, and also if you ever lose some chips.

    I'm not talking about getting hundreds more, but even 20 more of one denom instead of compromising could make all the difference. At $0.32/chip that's $6.40 more, plus shipping is free.
     
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  8. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    Sal, that's a good point. I guess I always try to advise based on whatever limitations they have, but your point is so good I think I'll start adding alternatives too! And I'll start here.

    Honestly, I wouldn't use the same set for both cash and tournaments. It's true that you aren't duplicating the use of any of them (unless you follow my cash advice above). There is zero chance of chip migration when you have two different sets.

    Atom, I like your advice about a different set. I completely agree.

    Vlad, did you limit to 1000 based on budget or storage? That might help all of us answer better. If it's storage, buy more chips. I think a lot of people on here think that is ALWAYS the answer! :)
     
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  9. Vlad Urshanskiy

    Vlad Urshanskiy New Member

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    I just like the idea of having matching set for both games. Since I will not be using $25 for cash EVER, there is zero chance of migration.

    The 1000 number is both budgetary and storage based. I'm just starting out with the games and hosting so don't want to jump ahead of myself. I figure to start with the best breakdown as I can with 1000 and I can always buy more of whatever I need later.

    I don't really like any other CCs and Paulson's are way too pricey.

    Why do I need to have such a big cash bank? The people I will be playing with are not high rollers, it's all for fun and $20 with maybe a rebuy or two at most will be it. So we're talking $500-$600 on the high end. Most nights it will be more like $300-$400. Plus I'm ok with cash plays and people having $20 bills out in case we do run that high.

    Why do you recommend having 2-3x expected bank in chips?
     
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  10. atomiktoaster

    atomiktoaster Well-Known Member

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    The 2-3x is for game growth and outlier nights. It's less of an issue with stock chips (you can pick up a rack of 5s if the game grows).
     
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  11. TexRex

    TexRex Well-Known Member

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    Vlad, I recommend it because almost 35 years of experience has taught me that things change from your original plan. Sometimes very quickly. The game will grow -- new players come in, new variations, stakes raised over time, lower end players dropping out eliminating resistance to stakes increases, etc. Sometimes you will find yourself competing against other local games (even if not on the same night) and sometimes there one-upmanship among hosts. "We start with 10K, but Joe starts w/15K? And I'm losing players? OK, I'll do 20K." It happens. I've seen a lot.

    My history with chip sets -- Bought a set that quickly became outdated (1). Upgraded to another set (2). Less than a year later, I bought a 7 color, 1000 chip set (3). It was a great cash set, but very limited as a tournament set. Still, it served me for 20 years, but then, after not playing for several years, I got back into. Chip set in adequate for needs, so, I upgraded again (4). Then our game grew, so I upgraded to a 30 player chip set limited to 10K per player (5). Larger game and larger starting stacks required another upgrade (6). Decided to buy a pure cash set as I hadn't had a cash set for years (7). Finally ordered China Clay on group buy [8]. I expect it would serve my needs for many years to come. Then GPI had a great deal on semi-custom ceramics, so I bought a set (9). That's worked well as we sometimes play two different tournaments simultaneously (never dreamed that up until recently). The last two are overbuilt for my real needs so I can grow some more.

    My cash set has $.01 (yes, for pennies!), $.05, $.25, $1, $5, $20, and $100. No, I never expect to have all 7 on the table at the same time, but I've got a lot of flexibility in the 700 chip set. Again, beyond my current needs, but plenty of room to grow.

    Bottom line: If I'd known when I started what I know now, I could have skipped at least the first 5 sets. I've never recovered my money when I sold a set, not even close.

    I don't know if this is helpful, but it's my advice based on my personal experience. :)
     
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  12. Vlad Urshanskiy

    Vlad Urshanskiy New Member

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    It's all very helpful and I appreciate the advice. Here is where I'm at now:

    I'll stick to 1000 set of Pharaoh's and split it 400/600 between cash and tournament.

    Cash
    120/120/160
    That gives me $950 bank, 12/12/1 starting chips for 10 and 23 rebuys.

    Tournament
    160/160/60/120/100
    That gives me 16/16/6/10/1 with T20K and 10 people. Or 8/8/2/3/3 with T20K and 20 people. Even with 2 full tables I'll have enough for 13 rebuys.

    Since I'm not planning on needing more than one table T10K, I think I'm set for at least some growth. If the game does grow far beyond that, I'll be upgrading to some real clay customs down the road.
     
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