[Nephi]

Originally Posted by specksynder

For those who didn't follow the design process, I wanted to point out that my design are "panoramic" images stretched across the two sides of the chip. The great photos that Martin took show both sides of the chips, and the image below shows how each pair fits together. Obviously, each side should be able to stand alone, but here you go!

Yep that's one of the things I like best in your design and which made me hesitate a lot !

[Garyon]

CousinReno & Bascome : Thank you for your very much posts and explanation.

With the number of contests that take place here and the number of attempts at cheating, I think it's human nature to for people, particularly the designers, who have a vested interest in the out-come of these polls, to raise questions when something looks suspicious.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I too have a community of players (my first Friday and a neighborhood group ) and family, that would have, and have offered to, create accounts only for the reason of voting for my designs (easy 20 votes at least). I have always insisted that they do not do this (and they have not). The competition is about the most attractive design ... NOT who has the most supportive friends. Ultimately the winning design is used to represent a company, so the impact of the winning design is more than simply a free set of chips. SunFly has to live with it as well.

I was glad to hear that it seems many of you who have voted, voted for the design. I would suggest, however, that any votes received by accounts which were created for the purpose of voting for Joel's design be discounted. Although I admire the conviction and loyalty of his friends it undermines the spirit of the competition and the effort and hard work put in by all the other designers when the votes are cast for the person and not the design. For those existing members that voted because they liked Joel regardless of his design ... well ... it's not fair, to the designers or to Joel.

As a designer, my main goal is to receive the validation of my peers. When people vote based on personal bias, the person voted for, loses any validation he would have received. After the contest is over they STILL don't know if they had a good design or not. Maybe not everyone cares about that sort of thing though ...


Sorry ... didn't mean to get up on a soapbox. It's actually a character flaw and happens frequently! So ... how about politics or religion!! LOL

[toad94]

Originally Posted by Garyon

CousinReno & Bascome : Thank you for your very much posts and explanation.

With the number of contests that take place here and the number of attempts at cheating, I think it's human nature to for people, particularly the designers, who have a vested interest in the out-come of these polls, to raise questions when something looks suspicious.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I too have a community of players (my first Friday and a neighborhood group ) and family, that would have, and have offered to, create accounts only for the reason of voting for my designs (easy 20 votes at least). I have always insisted that they do not do this (and they have not). The competition is about the most attractive design ... NOT who has the most supportive friends. Ultimately the winning design is used to represent a company, so the impact of the winning design is more than simply a free set of chips. SunFly has to live with it as well.

I was glad to hear that it seems many of you who have voted, voted for the design. I would suggest, however, that any votes received by accounts which were created for the purpose of voting for Joel's design be discounted. Although I admire the conviction and loyalty of his friends it undermines the spirit of the competition and the effort and hard work put in by all the other designers when the votes are cast for the person and not the design. For those existing members that voted because they liked Joel regardless of his design ... well ... it's not fair, to the designers or to Joel.

As a designer, my main goal is to receive the validation of my peers. When people vote based on personal bias, the person voted for, loses any validation he would have received. After the contest is over they STILL don't know if they had a good design or not. Maybe not everyone cares about that sort of thing though ...


Sorry ... didn't mean to get up on a soapbox. It's actually a character flaw and happens frequently! So ... how about politics or religion!! LOL

Very well said. The title of this contest was "Design Competition" --not "Popularity Competition" or "Sunfly Wants To Know Who Has The Most Loyal Friends Competition."

The problem then becomes qualifying voters and/or their motives. That gets into some world-class gray area. The debates on whose vote is legit and whose vote is tainted could go on forever, unless it was just blatantly played like the 39mm Sunfly contest. Probably no easy answer here, especially when the votes in question are for a highly competitive design.

Ideally, people would vote their conscience based on the submitted designs alone, not on friendships or politics--that is the spirit of this competition. Perhaps I'm naive to believe people could still act ethically in these matters.

[bascombe]

Originally Posted by Garyon

I would suggest, however, that any votes received by accounts which were created for the purpose of voting for Joel's design be discounted.

I agree with that. I have posted a message on Joel's thread on clubpoker.net insisting that people stop registering to chiptalk for the sole purpose of participating in the poll (should have done it before but I didn't see that coming). I don't think people can withdraw their votes once they've been cast so some cleaning up probably has to be done by the moderators on this forum, based on the joining date criterion.

As Toad94 says it is a gray area, since it is difficult to completely discard the designer's status when you try to evaluate a project, and the decision to vote is also dependent on your relative interest in the contest, which itself can be triggered by being familiar with a designer's work beforehand and following the genesis of his project step by step.

Though the discussions on the thread on clubpoker.net center on Joel's project, they also show that generally speaking people actually care about the chips and have looked closely at the other designs as well. But it is also fair to say that these people would simply not have cared to vote if he hadn't been participating, so we have indeed created a distortion.

[Garyon]

Originally Posted by bascombe

I agree with that. I have posted a message on Joel's thread on clubpoker.net insisting that people stop registering to chiptalk for the sole purpose of participating in the poll (should have done it before but I didn't see that coming). I don't think people can withdraw their votes once they've been cast so some cleaning up probably has to be done by the moderators on this forum, based on the joining date criterion.

As Toad94 says it is a gray area, since it is difficult to completely discard the designer's status when you try to evaluate a project, and the decision to vote is also dependent on your relative interest in the contest, which itself can be triggered by being familiar with a designer's work beforehand and following the genesis of his project step by step.

Though the discussions on the thread on clubpoker.net center on Joel's project, they also show that generally speaking people actually care about the chips and have looked closely at the other designs as well. But it is also fair to say that these people would simply not have cared to vote if he hadn't been participating, so we have indeed created a distortion.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I think we all understand and respect everyone's position and that's really all anyone could ask for. I appreciate your thoughtful and constructive perspective. I think alot of people would have taken offense and gotten upset to this line of conversation. I REALLY respect and appreciate that you did not, and instead helped us to understand the "other side of the coin".

I also want to be absolutely clear too : I don't want to suggest that there is anything wrong with Joel's design either. I think it a VERY solid entry and his work should not be looked at as anything less than that.

For MY part ... I am resorting to gratuitous advertising of the contest itself to existing CT members (see link in my signature) in the hopes that if we draw sheer numbers, we can help offset this "French Connection" jk

Hopefully we can put this behind us ... and hope that, now that they have introduced themselves, we will hear now more from our, otherwise silent, fellow Chip Fanatics!!

[Garyon]

Originally Posted by bascombe

To end on a lighter note, it is no little irony that Ckoi7arnak's pseudo is short for "C'est quoi cette arnaque ?" which more or less means "There is something fishy in this".

By the way ... this is a RIOT!!! ROTFLMAO!!

[Nephi]

Originally Posted by Garyon

I would suggest, however, that any votes received by accounts which were created for the purpose of voting for Joel's design be discounted. [...] For those existing members that voted because they liked Joel regardless of his design ... well ... it's not fair, to the designers or to Joel.

I definitely agree on the "join date" test we should perform. And BTW, this is exactly what I said in my very first post on this thread

[Sun-Fly]

All votes placed from members who have joined CT on the start date of the poll onwards will not count.

I would like to encourage anyone voting to look for what they feel is the best design.

If there are any problems then feel free to PM me.

Martin

[BlakeC27]

Great designs everyone!

[jamby]

Very creative and very well done. I love your mock-ups.

Originally Posted by specksynder

For those who didn't follow the design process, I wanted to point out that my design are "panoramic" images...