[TenPercenter]

We frequently have reported posts/auctions for sales or promos that some consider "commercial" and some do not (The "do not" usually start with the poster)

To be fair, I'd like to get everyone's help on better define "commercial" so that we can avoid feelings of discrimination. Once we are happy with it, we'll edit the FAQ to include this definition.

Remember, the purpose of the policy against commercial use of the "personal" sales areas is twofold: 1) Protect the members who are selling personal stuff so they don't have to compete against commercial entities, and 2) Protect the paying sponsors so they do not compete against competitors who use the "free" channels like Auctions and Classifieds.

I don't want to get so specific so that we are nailed by semantics, but we need to get more specific than just saying "you're making a profit." Since many of us will use an occasional opportunity to buy chips low and sell them high, there is a distinction somewhere between that person and a person that buys 10,000 at once, or buys/sells 1000 every week (see how that's too specific?).

I propose to start, this phrase (partially taken from Wikipedia). Please make suggestions on any changes:

Commercial is defined as an action done by (or at the prompting of) a company or individual for the intent of making a profit. It is economic in nature and usually has the intent of convincing the audience to partake in a particular action, often purchasing a product or service. "Personal" sales/promotions may also be considered Commercial if done on a regular basis or in large enough quantities to not be mistaken as personal.

[ACE'S FULL]

I am by no means an expert here but the excerpt from Wiki would just about take every post in the classified section down due to it being commerical or "for-profit".

With that being said if you purchase something with the sole intent later to sell for a profit here than to me thats commerical. For instance I run a GB and buy 2000 chips and I only need 500. I then wait a month or so and put them up in the classified section and sell them for more than I paid for them, to me thats a commerical act. This seems to be a very common pratice here. Again this may not be the most pouplar decision but I could see how some can benfit and others cannot due to the gray area with some sales.

[stardust]

Originally Posted by TenPercenter

I don't want to get so specific so that we are nailed by semantics, but we need to get more specific than just saying "you're making a profit." Since many of us will use an occasional opportunity to buy chips low and sell them high, there is a distinction somewhere between that person and a person that buys 10,000 at once, or buys/sells 1000 every week (see how that's too specific?).

I don't see why you wouldn't want to get too specific. It's the only way how to measure how commercial a given seller is here. I'd say use the transaction volume per year and define an upper limit on that. Of course it's sometimes not known for how much an item went, so that would be a problem...

To be honest, I think some of the sellers here on the classifieds make more profit than HPC for example. Some sell hotstamping services while HPC needs to pay for a dedicated forum. If you want to keep things fair (esp. for those who paid for a forum) there's a very specific definition needed IMHO.

[weak]

simple solution: don't offer store credits for cash. if you have to earn credits (like the 100 chips for the old m2m system) it will be next to impossible to use the classifieds section for commercial purposes.

don't take that as another rant against the new m2m system, i like the way it is now. but if people pay for their ads you'll have a hard time explaining why they can't post a certain article.

[KYBill]

My question is whats the difference between someone selling or trading poker tables and someone who walks into a casino buys 100 chips and then sells them for twice there value on here (repeatedly)? ? ?

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/auctio...irculated.html



Seems to me there is more of a conflict of interest with the chip seller than the table builder (since all paid vendors sell poker chips)

[Scoutens]

As a "commercial" seller as well as a "non-commercial" member of CT, I find the restrictions here fine for the most part. I understand the reasoning and try my best to not be commercial or too biased in my postings. I think the portion to look at in the wiki definition is "ON A REGULAR BASIS". You need to define regular.

Also, anyone that has an official business should be excluded from the auctions and member to member sales for items they retail. So, someone like me who sells BR Pro chips shouldn't be allowed to sell those. But if i wanted to sell my NJ's or a table topper or some other item that I don't retail, I should be allowed to sell that or advertise it in the auction forum.

Just my .02

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by ACE'S FULL

I am by no means an expert here but the excerpt from Wiki would just about take every post in the classified section down due to it being commerical or "for-profit".

With that being said if you purchase something with the sole intent later to sell for a profit here than to me thats commerical. For instance I run a GB and buy 2000 chips and I only need 500. I then wait a month or so and put them up in the classified section and sell them for more than I paid for them, to me thats a commerical act. This seems to be a very common pratice here. Again this may not be the most pouplar decision but I could see how some can benfit and others cannot due to the gray area with some sales.

Right, that's the kinda thing we dont want to deny. But when does it cross the line? What kind of wording could be used to denote the difference?

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by stardust

To be honest, I think some of the sellers here on the classifieds make more profit than HPC for example. Some sell hotstamping services ....

If someone is selling hotstamping services at a profit in the Classifieds, then they're already clearly breaking policy. If they did a few as a favor with no aspirations to use the favors as a launching pad as a venture, then great, but how likely is that?

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by weak

simple solution: don't offer store credits for cash. if you have to earn credits (like the 100 chips for the old m2m system) it will be next to impossible to use the classifieds section for commercial purposes.

Are you sure? Looks at some of the sponsors and tell me if they dont have enough points to buy Classifieds credits if they wanted to.

Plus, it's not the completely obvious retailers we're having to define this for, or just new members. it's the ones testing the waters, or just selling the massive inventory they've built, or whatever. It's really long time members that have "grown into" or migrated to the commercial venture.

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by KYBill

My question is whats the difference between someone selling or trading poker tables and someone who walks into a casino buys 100 chips and then sells them for twice there value on here (repeatedly)? ? ?

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/auctio...irculated.html

Seems to me there is more of a conflict of interest with the chip seller than the table builder (since all paid vendors sell poker chips)

FYI Silk's made it clear he's only selling off his personal set(s) after going to a different set. He says he's selling them at a loss.