[whataboutj]

To define a commercial seller Vs. a personal seller and definie in a finite manner will be extemely difficult (except for those obvious companies like our excellent sponsors). There will always be people trying to sell items/services at a profit.

As it pertains to the topic of cureent casino poker chips (like the MGM grand fractionals or Silks poker room $1 as examples - I'm sure there are others out there that I am missing and I am not trying to single out any specific chips or memebers, those are just two that come to mind right away) maybe put a cap on the amount over face value that the chips can be sold for. An example would be "No more than $150 for a rack of current $1 chips". That way if a seller of those chips feels that a %50 profit is fair/ok with them they will list them here. If not they are able to list them on Ebay and ask whatever they feel is appropriate and post a link to the auction on CT - giving CT the "credit" for the link through to the ebay listing. I think that would be a way to regulate the attempt to be a non-commercial- commercial seller. As for what the percentage cap is - that is something that would need to be decided. I used the $150 example because that seems to be the consensus for what a "Fair price" is for a rack of current $1 chips. As for people who buy current chips for more than the stipulated profit cap and then want to sell them at a later date - they would need to decide if they are willing to take a loss on the purchase or simply list them on ebay with a link to the listing on CT.

This is just my opinion of course - curious what others think
J

[BigBrando]

I think the following is a very sensible idea that will help Ten determine how many (and what kind of) Classified Ads are perceived as being commercial.

Originally Posted by develvjd-

How about a "Flag this post as Commercial" button on all personal Classified ads. If enough members flag the post as commercial...

Another idea would be to restrict each member to one Classified FOR SALE Ad posting per month which still allows members the opportunity to "house clean" their collections. Of course, I would exclude WTB/WTT Classifieds from this policy since I don't see them as fitting easily under the Commercial designation.

Personally, I think a good starting point to separate Commercial from Personal sales regarding live casino chips would involve three things: 1) quantity for sale, 2) location, and 3) price above face value/cost. Instead of the whimsical locations that some CT members list in their profile, members wanting to post a Classified Ad would be required to disclose their location (verified by their IP address location, if necessary). From that, I think we can reasonably conclude that any listing for live casino chips in quantity (50 or above) from a seller residing near the location of that casino, at a price greater than face value is a commercial enterprise.

I suppose another criteria could be a "produce to order" component. That is to say, table builders and chip manufacturers conduct "produce to order" business - which is very different from collecting. So, unless it was a barter situation ("WTT"), I would designate table building to be strictly a commercial endeavor.

It's worth mentioning that I chose not to address the issue of "flipping" or speculating on closed casino chip sets as these are typically one-time listings. Although I've seen a few members do this regularly (giving the impression that these are commercial attempts), I do distinguish between those sellers who are re-allocating existing chips and those introducing new chips into the collecting community. For example, I love seeing TR King hotstamp sets and Crystal Park sets change hands, and to me that is completely different than someone selling live casino chips that are (comparatively) easier to acquire and (comparatively) easier to replace.

Thoughts?

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by develvjd-

OK, so a personal classified ad is 100 chips. Let's make a commercial classified ad 300 chips (or x00 chips TBD).

I feel that Classifieds should remain exclusive to personals period.

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by ACE'S FULL

The only problem that I see with this is no matter what is decided its going to have a subjectiveness to it. Meaning what I think is commercial and what others may think are two different things.

That's true, and it's usually the commercial person that's objecting. About 20% of them get very angry that they've been called out.

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by JCTC

Perhaps a way to prevent "commercial sales" is to limit the number of sales someone can post within a certain time period. This would allow people to sell, but it would constrain it in a way that someone couldn't be doing it as a business.

This idea is intriguing. That may be possible in the two places currently allowed for sales, the Auction forum, and the Classifieds. "Flood Control" I think it's called.

Well, it doesn't really prevent commercial sales. Just limits them in frequency. Plus, in Auctions, the person can just link to their ebay store or "about me" page or a direct link to all open auctions by them.

[TenPercenter]

Originally Posted by develvjd-

Well, I figured that out too. How about a "Flag this post as Commercial" button on all personal Classified ads. If enough members flag the post as commercial, .... This way the community can determine for itself what the is commercial on a case-by-case basis without tasking Mods.

I like this idea, possibly without the "allow commercial ads at a premium price" component. We already get reported posts and ads, which is exactly what prompted this thread. So it's not automatic, but still works.

[MeridianFC]

I think the frequency is the first bench mark. If someone is regularly offering sales, and let's face it most sales are going to be for profit, then they should be considered commercial. How do you define regular? Also you're the final arbiter so if the seller can convince you whatever is on offer is actually more for bartering (selling one set to get another, etc) than you can make exceptions.

Volume and or dollar amount might come into play. Someone could certainly make one sale, say for a boatload of casino cheques, and that'd probably be seen my most as a proper commericial venture. Just throwing that out there.

Just to use a personal example I've made three sales in my time here, one on eBay and two through M2M. One at a profit, two at a loss (the later to fund other chip buys). The for profit sale made me a pretty big profit, in theory (Paulson I bought ten years earlier). I know the dictionary probably defines that as commercial, maybe not wise but commericial none the less. I certainly don't feel like a business.

Hopefully good sense will prevail.

[develvjd-]

Originally Posted by TenPercenter

I like this idea, possibly without the "allow commercial ads at a premium price" component. We already get reported posts and ads, which is exactly what prompted this thread. So it's not automatic, but still works.

It works but it requires MOD input. Don't those post reports kill you guys? If not now, what about in a year when the site has 25,000 users?