hold 'em popularity a result of the dumbing down of America?

jamby · #1 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 06:22 PM

I was at my doctor's office this morning and picked up a dated Vanity Fair. It contained a rather long article about Angie Dickinson who was in the original Ocean's 11 and a fringe Rat Pack member along with Shirley MacLaine and a few others back in the day.

For those young-uns amongst us I've included a few pictures to familiarize you with Ms. Dickinson. Along with Oceans 11 she had a pretty successful TV career playing Pepper Anderson in Police Woman as well as a knockout performance in De Palma's Dressed to Kill. Enough about her though. This thread is about something she said in the article.

She talked about her lifelong obsession with poker. Apparently she played regularly with Dino and the boys. She said that Dean used to be a veritable pro (I think it was in Ohio?) until he ran into trouble with thugs or the law or some such thing. She commented that Sinatra never joined in the games since he had a need for action and was drawn to dice games and baccarat instead of poker.

What really intrigued me though was her discussion about poker's popularity today. She asserted that hold 'em is having the popularity that it is because of the dumbing down of America. I wish the author had delved more into this, but the article was about her life and loves and not gaming. The intimation though was that draw and stud and other games more popular both in the past and outside of the U.S. were more challenging and 'smarter' than our game of choice today. She didn't get into discussing TV poker or hole card cameras or anything like that so I'm left wondering if the 'dumbing' she's referring to is solely related to the players of hold 'em or to the TV viewership too.

Your thoughts?

joepro · #2 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 06:28 PM

I disagree with that assessment. Holdem, especially no limit, is a much more intricate game than seven stud/ five card draw. They don't call it the "cadillac of poker" for nothing!

JM · #3 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 06:38 PM

I frankly never understood the attraction to any of these clowns that she hung with. The whole 'rat pack' thing makes me gag, I feel like saying 'grow up, you're not in jr high anymore!'.

ipgyst · #4 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 06:43 PM

No Limit poker, and No Limit Hold 'Em in particular, is about the only form of poker that makes for good television. If other forms of poker made for good television, we'd have seen some more of them by now. The drama, suspense, and stories that accompany an All-In make TV poker what it is. I think that is why the delayed WSOP FT will be somewhat successful. The reason the poker boom happened is because of the internet, and not because people are dumber. If the USA ever regulates and legalizes online poker, we will see another upswing.

shanghai_sparky · #5 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 06:47 PM

The dumbing down I see in poker are the players they show on ESPN.
Playing and winning take skill, getting face time on tv takes acts of stupidity and arrogance.

JM · #6 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanghai_sparky

The dumbing down I see in poker are the players they show on ESPN.
Playing and winning take skill, getting face time on tv takes acts of stupidity and arrogance.

This is SO TRUE!

TenPercenter · #7 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 07:06 PM

I think holdem popularity is just the result of moneymaker's win at the wsop main event which happens to be holdem.

guinness · #8 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 07:39 PM

I don't think its a dumbing down. I think its an old talent feeling the need to stomp something current. Happens all the time with regular people. If I had a nickel every time I heard about "the days when blah was done right" I'd be rich.

Granted..with wife and two kids I'm kinda thinking if not sounding that way from time to time regarding younger people but...

nelohalo · #9 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 07:43 PM

I agree with Tenpercenter. Holdem was in the right place at the right time. I also feel the simplicity that the game can be learned in is a factor, in addition to the fact that bad players can still win from time to time.

mike33 · #10 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepro

I disagree with that assessment. Holdem, especially no limit, is a much more intricate game than seven stud/ five card draw. They don't call it the "cadillac of poker" for nothing!

I agree with this and I think DB would have something similar to say about it. As said above, NLHE has exploded because of Moneymaker's win, the internet, the WPT and how "simple" the game is on the surface enabling almost everyone to "think" they know how to play.

The general public of America has been stupid for a lot longer than the last five years