[jamby]

The subject comes to mind again for me since I'm currently watching the WPT Bellagio Cup repeat show on GSN. Saul's a Chicagoan and one of the new breed who'll play and pounce with any two cards seemingly. Personally, I find this type of player the most difficult to play against.

Thread title says it all. Please discuss. No need to limit it to discussion of Saul as the style is certainly in use with varying degrees of success by others too.

[jojobinks]

yes.

[jamby]

Let's not limit the discussion to online only though. His live winnings aren't as impressive if you take out last year's WPT event.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by jamby

Let's not limit the discussion to online only though. His live winnings aren't nearly as impressive, especially if you take out last year's WPT event.

august 06 - april 08, 1.7 million in live winnings?

[jojobinks]

i don't know how many 10ks he plays in a year, but i know that it'd be kind of weird to count out his big cash, given that...they don't come that often?

let's look at negreanu's 2004: he won like 4 million that year. should we count it out when considering his record?

[jamby]

Cardplayer has 1.742 million lifetime and if you take out the 1.342 million in the WPT Bellagio event though and you don't have but $400,000 lifetime CardPlayer.com - Player Database - Results for Kevin Saul

I'm watching that particular event for the 3rd time and his volatile play can really go either way. He was big stack and then he dumped most his chips, he comes back and plays a lot of junk starting hands and has the good fortunate to hit a bunch of boards. Really seems like the kind of play that can't be counted on to produce over the long haul as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by jojobinks

august 06 - april 08, 1.7 million in live winnings?

[beekeeper]

He looks like Egghead (Foghorn Leghorn's nephew).

foghorn leghorn's nephew - Google Image Search

[nelohalo]

How do most players with many bracelets play? I don't think its hyper aggressive.

There isn't a style that wins in tournaments. It's making the correct decisions and having the results go your way for a certain period of time. You'll find tourney winners that do not play any hands unless they go all in pre flop. You'll find tourney winners that are involved in every single hand for a half hour straight.

Tournaments are also hugely affected by how the other players are dealt cards. If you run into Aces against someone when you go all in, you probably will lose. If you raise ten hands in a row, and only one player stubbornly calls you down each time, you probably will lose. It just depends on the situation.

Its annoying that one style cannot be learned to be successful at tourneys, but thats poker I guess.

I personally will not play many pots at all during a tournament unless I get big hands or a situation arises where I think they are raising without a good hand. This is because I think I can ouplay people and read them before the flop. If I am against better players, I raise and go all in frequently, because I cannot outplay them.

If you > them, don't play too many pots. You try to find a very good spot to get your money in.

If they > you, bet and move in before the flop and pray they don't get good hands. You are hoping to steal enough to survive, and get lucky once or twice towards the end of the tourney.

This all goes out the window when there are few players left and the blinds and antes are high. Then...you're on your own.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by jamby

Really seems like the kind of play that can't be counted on to produce over the long haul as far as I can tell.

matusow
pham

there aren't many successful tournament pros that could be categorized as nits. these two are the first that come to mind when you say volatile. i'd say they've had pretty good results. the thing about the long haul is that it never comes in live play. if poker stays like it is right now and a 21 year old played the tour for the next 30 years, how many 10ks would he play in his career? i'm guessing somewhere in the vicinity of (30*20=600). a sample that size is teeny-tiny. it's like a week's worth of sngs for an online grinder.

of course, in real life the # is much less. before 2003 there was 1 10k each year. so doyle brunson has probably played in like 125 of 'em.

[Poboy]

The nature of tournament play (short stack play, w/extra fold equity) is tailor made for shovey/aggr play.