Betting out of turn IS BINDING!!!

tmpa2001 · #1 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:31 PM

On Day 2 (Tuesday Night Episode) of PAD this week betting out of turn WAS RULED BINDING!

Wedge Rock · #2 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:37 PM

Happened tonight at a casino too (at my table...I was not in the hand). It was clear (to me) that neither player made anything and the first to bet the river was going to take it down. The button bet first and the dealer called his bet live. The BB had no option. He couldn't check, he couldn't just call... his only choice was to raise, but given his reaction, that probably doesn't work either...

To be fair, the button didn't do it intentionally at my table, I don't think.

abby99 · #3 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:46 PM

I didn't see the episode, but this probably has something to do with the new rule adopted by the TDA at the 2007 summit (emphasis added):

30. Verbal Declarations. Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing.

The complete set of current rules is available at http://www.pokertda.com/rules.htm.

shadesofgrey · #4 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wedge Rock

Happened tonight at a casino too (at my table...I was not in the hand). It was clear (to me) that neither player made anything and the first to bet the river was going to take it down. The button bet first and the dealer called his bet live. The BB had no option. He couldn't check, he couldn't just call... his only choice was to raise, but given his reaction, that probably doesn't work either...

Wedge, why couldn't the BB just call? I understand the why the BB can't check, but he should have been able to call the bet. Or did i read that wrong?

As per the betting out of turn being binding... Most games i've played in an out of turn action or verbal bet/raise is binding.

what do you guys do? I thought it was a pretty standard rule.

Wedge Rock · #5 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadesofgrey

Wedge, why couldn't the BB just call? I understand the why the BB can't check, but he should have been able to call the bet. Or did i read that wrong?

It was a $30 bet into a $30 pot... Technically, he *could* bet $30 which would have the same result as calling, since the button's $30 bet was deemed binding. But I don't think either of them had anything, so it would have been a $30 coin flip for the BB, and I don't think he wanted to risk it.

This is the same dealer who charged a guy missed blinds when he set his stack down and tolf the floor he was going to have his comped meal... Its not like the tbale was full... there were usually at least 2 or 3 open seats amongst all the 1/2 NL tables.

BrettButter · #6 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wedge Rock

It was a $30 bet into a $30 pot... Technically, he *could* bet $30 which would have the same result as calling, since the button's $30 bet was deemed binding. But I don't think either of them had anything, so it would have been a $30 coin flip for the BB, and I don't think he wanted to risk it.

This is the same dealer who charged a guy missed blinds when he set his stack down and tolf the floor he was going to have his comped meal... Its not like the tbale was full... there were usually at least 2 or 3 open seats amongst all the 1/2 NL tables.

Open seats in the poker room? What time was that?

In our games, we never held people to verbal declarations that were made out of turn. I didn't particularly like this rule, mostly due to playing with idiots who enjoy randomly shouting all in whenever they feel like it.. Maybe now I can get them to change this..

shadesofgrey · #7 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wedge Rock

It was a $30 bet into a $30 pot... Technically, he *could* bet $30 which would have the same result as calling, since the button's $30 bet was deemed binding. But I don't think either of them had anything, so it would have been a $30 coin flip for the BB, and I don't think he wanted to risk it.

Ahhh... Got it. That makes more sense now.. I thought the dealer was saying he could only raise..

Wedge Rock · #8 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

Open seats in the poker room? What time was that?

I called ahead about 2:30 PM, a seat was waiting when I arrived around 3:30 pm. I played until about 7:15...

There was one guy sitting across from me who told the story about how UTG+1 limped and he had pocket 6's in the BB. He limped. Check-check on the flop. Turn didn't help the pocket 6's, but when checked to him, he bet, and the UTG+1 called. [I'm sounding like this clown, making this story way too long.] So anyway, river comes, no help to the 6's, check, 6's goes all in. UTG+2 calls and turns over 2-4os for the [wait for it...] bicycle. Right. The bicycle. Not the wheel. The bicycle.

I enjoyed doubling up through him for about $90.

[/threadjack]

abby99 · #9 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 11:39 PM

I just watched the hand in question, between Benyamine and Sheikhan (about half way through Segment 5). Sheikhan bet out of turn. Benyamin then checked. Sheikhan tried to check but was forced to make his original bet. Had Benyamin bet instead of checking, Sheikhan's out-of-turn bet would no longer have been binding. This is consistent with the new TDA rule.

No spoiler here, folks.

rimmerryan · #10 (**permalink**) 04-19-2007, 12:48 AM

Though I like the rule and think it should be enforced [and have seen it enforced in both Oklahoma and Missouri card rooms] I really enjoy it when someone with a weaker hand bets or calls out of turn, and then allows me to raise.

If they hadn't done so, then their money wouldn't necessarily have made it into the pot and in most of those cases, those chips just migrate over to the stronger hands stack anyways.

Keep the rule and Enforce it!!! even in home games [at least we do]

R.