tournament of champions

johnnyjersey · #1 (**permalink**) 12-25-2005, 05:01 PM

Hey...how did they determine who sat at this years WSOP tournament of champions that was televised on christmas eve. Did they just invite whoever made it to a finals table or was there a tournament... Also..anyone see dannenman's blow up at hellmuth?

BigKyle · #2 (**permalink**) 12-25-2005, 05:31 PM

They took the top 20 (different) finishers from each of the 5 WSOP Circuit events, and also the nine final table finishers from the WSOP Main Event at the Rio, for a total of 109 participants. When Sobe Adrenaline Rush became a headlining sponsor, the tournament added Doyle Brunson, Johnny Chan, and Phil Hellmuth, Jr., presumably to add interest. As far as Dannenmann's outburst, it seemed preconceived to me, as if he was doing it as a show for the cameras. Personally I thought the entire coverage of it was exactly what is wrong with poker on television: too much arguing and ill-spirited dialogue between the players, and not enough of the interesting hands that went on in the tournament, strategy analysis, player profiles, etc.

boondocker96 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-25-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigKyle

Personally I thought the entire coverage of it was exactly what is wrong with poker on television: too much arguing and ill-spirited dialogue between the players, and not enough of the interesting hands that went on in the tournament, strategy analysis, player profiles, etc.

Well said. No need to exploit the 'went to a hockey game and a poker tourney broke out' angle.

Im actually ok with them bringing in Chan and Hellmuth and such.., just keep the focus on cards and less on antics.

(In all seriousness though, where I come from anyone that tries to pull the kinda sh!t that Dannenman was pushin' ends up with a with a lot worse than a couple of handshakes. Dannenman straight up called Phil out. Called him a punk right to his face, in front of a crowd and on national TV. Dannenman could have been (deservedly so) lit up by Phil right there no sooner than the when words came out of his mouth. Of course no shenanigans like that would probably ever happen, (although phil did brawl some dude once in a parking lot and got his a$$ kicked) and it would probably be bad for poker, but bottom line is that Dannenman was out of line./rant)

johnnyjersey · #4 (**permalink**) 12-26-2005, 01:36 AM

dude was completely out of line. I actually think hellmuth's feelings were possibly hurt, believe it or not.

tomb1 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-26-2005, 09:31 AM

Not sure if that telecast was trying to be a hockey game or a wrasslin match!

I guess fighting is good for show. Maybe they got a good response from all the trash-talking on the WSOP telecasts, and decided to do some more like that. Both Dannenman and Matusow looked like they were trying to pick a fight, it looked really staged, like "pro" "wrestling."

Well boys, poker isn't just poker any more . . . it's big time entertainment now.

And now that Caesar's is owned by Harrah's, it looks like it's being set up for next year's WSOP.

Phaetos · #6 (**permalink**) 12-26-2005, 01:53 PM

I actually thought the entire thing was hilarious. Especially the gifts that were given out. The globe for Matusow and the donkey for Hellmuth. That was classic.

BigKyle · #7 (**permalink**) 12-26-2005, 02:55 PM

I forgot to say this in my first post, but the coverage on the CardPlayer website said that the banter was almost all Mastusow for the entire time they were shorthanded. Also, it said that Phil talked about how everytime Hoyt was moving all-in, and the times Phil called him were the times Hoyt happened to win.

I just thought they didn't do a great job of showing poker hands. I know there were some good hands because there were some great players and a lot of bracelets/titles were represented at the table. Here is my question: do people who aren't serious poker players watch a lot of poker, and do people who aren't serious poker players enjoy the arguing and the banter and so on? Seems to me like they would want to see how to play good and get better, just like I do.

PocketRocket · #8 (**permalink**) 12-26-2005, 03:22 PM

As a matter of fact, yes. I know of several people who are avid fans of the various poker shows who have literally never played a hand of poker of any kind.

The arguing and banter? I suspect some of it may be more dramatic that it needs to be and may actually be done for the sake of television. (Can anyone say 'wrestling' here

). Needless to say, many of the players that you see on TV, especially the big name players, have agents that manage their TV appearances (hosting and participating in shows and such) along with their schedule of personal appearances, and in part may help to build their TV personalities.

I think a lot of the 'lay' audience gets a kick out of some player ripping a player like Hellmuth or Matasow a new one, given their TV persona. And Steve Danneman's outburst on that taping looked totally out of character for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigKyle

Here is my question: do people who aren't serious poker players watch a lot of poker, and do people who aren't serious poker players enjoy the arguing and the banter and so on? Seems to me like they would want to see how to play good and get better, just like I do.

Quintz71 · #9 (**permalink**) 12-27-2005, 06:08 PM

I was under the impression of what Steve said was completely inline.
Of what I have read (now I am a first year poker player and have not played any live games other then on the net and at my own home), that one of the top rules for any tourney is that a player's chips must be fully displayed so that the other players at the table can clearly see the amount of chips in posession. Hellmuth did not have his chips in this matter, they were mixed out infront of him. I also think that this showed a serious lack of respect of Hellmuth for the other players at the table and the tourney itself. So when Steve asked the director to have Hellmuth stack his chips, Hellmuth had no leg to stand on, Hellmuth was not following rules and was called on it. Steve did have some huge ones for calling Hellmuth, but no one else would call Hellmuth out, so Steve did. I mean, come on... even Hellmuth's dad told him to shut up and play.

And of what I have seen of Hellmuth, with his comments of calling the amatuer an idiot and couldn't even spell poker, and "If it wasn't for luck, I'd win it all"... Steve said the right thing... the truth hurts and I do find Hellmuth a punk.

boondocker96 · #10 (**permalink**) 12-27-2005, 06:18 PM

Hey by no means am I a Helmuth supporter. The guy is a quintessential douchebag and a never ending source of sour whine.
However, the chip stacking thing is a little ridiculous IMO. Sure anyone at the table is entitled to know what hes got, but lighten up here folks. Theres no way hes going to be able to continue to play like that (at some pont hes going to have to stack them, and he knows that) but to go off on him like that seemed over the top to me.