[Limit Breaker]

Here is some words from Josh Arieh on the Made-King high flush folding at the 2004 WSOP. Interesting how he noticed John Murphy's tell on the board pairing.

A question I continue to get on a daily basis is “How did you know to fold your king high flush vs. John Murphy with two tables left at the WSOP?” Well, since I'm home here in Atlanta and don’t have much to tell about, I thought today was a great chance to give you guy’s insight into my thinking that hand.

For those that are unfamiliar with the hand, it went like this. John raised in late position and I was directly to his left with a few more chips than him. The both of us had nice stacks and I felt that he didn’t want to tangle with me, since he was out of position. I know if the tables were turned and he had position on me, I definitely would have shied away from playing big pots with him….. Anyway……John made a typical raise with pockets twos and I called the raise with K4 of hearts. Everyone else folded and our two big stacks were tangling head up. The flop came QJ2 with two hearts. He led for a respectable and expected small amount and I flat called. The turn was an off suit six and he led for another bet about the size of the pot. This is where I probably should have folded, but my implied odds were pretty good at this point. If I make my flush on the river, I can win a buncha chips. So, I called and the Q of hearts came on the river, making my flush but also pairing the board. Murphy moved all-in and I had really gotten my self into a doo-daa-day here. I asked for a count down and thought about it for a long time before making my final decision. There was actually a few times in my mind that I saw myself pushing the chips in and calling. After a minute or so of deliberation it came to me. I finally put all of the pieces of the puzzle together and realized that I have no call here. Yes, I may be laying the best hand down, but no it’s not the time and place to be guessing. If I were wrong I would have like 200k left, but if I am right, I still have an above average stack and can continue to chop away at the amateurs that were still remaining in the tournament. It may sound cocky or arrogant, but that’s exactly how I felt.

Another thing I thought about while I was putting the pieces of the puzzle together was the ole “I know that he knows that I know” game. There was no doubt in my mind that he was knew that I was drawing at a flush and when the board paired with a heart he kinda acted without thinking. John is an amazing player with amazing instincts. I am sure if he would have thought for another second, he would have check raised me and possibly crippled my chances at becoming world champion or even making the final table. It was definitely a pleasure being able to play with John in the main event; I can honestly say his great play late in the tournament definitely helped bring my game to another level. - Josh Arieh.

[coyote]

where did he mention Murphy's tell?

[KYBill]

Originally Posted by Limit Breaker

Here is some words from Josh Arieh on the Made-King high flush folding at the 2004 WSOP. Interesting how he noticed John Murphy's tell on the board pairing.

A question I continue to get on a daily basis is “How did you know to fold your king high flush vs. John Murphy with two tables left at the WSOP?” Well, since I'm home here in Atlanta and don’t have much to tell about, I thought today was a great chance to give you guy’s insight into my thinking that hand.

For those that are unfamiliar with the hand, it went like this. John raised in late position and I was directly to his left with a few more chips than him. The both of us had nice stacks and I felt that he didn’t want to tangle with me, since he was out of position. I know if the tables were turned and he had position on me, I definitely would have shied away from playing big pots with him….. Anyway……John made a typical raise with pockets twos and I called the raise with K4 of hearts. Everyone else folded and our two big stacks were tangling head up. The flop came QJ2 with two hearts. He led for a respectable and expected small amount and I flat called. The turn was an off suit six and he led for another bet about the size of the pot. This is where I probably should have folded, but my implied odds were pretty good at this point. If I make my flush on the river, I can win a buncha chips. So, I called and the Q of hearts came on the river, making my flush but also pairing the board. Murphy moved all-in and I had really gotten my self into a doo-daa-day here. I asked for a count down and thought about it for a long time before making my final decision. There was actually a few times in my mind that I saw myself pushing the chips in and calling. After a minute or so of deliberation it came to me. I finally put all of the pieces of the puzzle together and realized that I have no call here. Yes, I may be laying the best hand down, but no it’s not the time and place to be guessing. If I were wrong I would have like 200k left, but if I am right, I still have an above average stack and can continue to chop away at the amateurs that were still remaining in the tournament. It may sound cocky or arrogant, but that’s exactly how I felt. - Josh Arieh.

SO this makes him a great player how?

This is far from the best lay down in wsop history...




IMO Josh is a average/below average pro who berates people at the table. Nothing special to me.

[Limit Breaker]

Originally Posted by coyote

where did he mention Murphy's tell?

Oops, sorry bro, I forgot to add this:

Another thing I thought about while I was putting the pieces of the puzzle together was the ole “I know that he knows that I know” game. There was no doubt in my mind that he was knew that I was drawing at a flush and when the board paired with a heart he kinda acted without thinking. John is an amazing player with amazing instincts. I am sure if he would have thought for another second, he would have check raised me and possibly crippled my chances at becoming world champion or even making the final table. It was definitely a pleasure being able to play with John in the main event; I can honestly say his great play late in the tournament definitely helped bring my game to another level.



The quick bet following the board pairing as well as possible flush. If you were bluffing you'd take more time to analize your opponent's hand. Murphy had to know Josh made the flush.

[Limit Breaker]

Originally Posted by KYBill

SO this makes him a great player how?

This is far from the best lay down in wsop history...




IMO Josh is a average/below average pro who berates people at the table. Nothing special to me.

I didn't say it makes him a great player. But you have to admit most players would have gone broke right there. I do disagree that Josh is an average player, so will most other pros. No one is condoning his table behavior last year.

Btw, what is a better laydown that comes to mind?

[jojobinks]

ah yes, an average player with 2 wsop rings and 9 cashes combined at wpt and wsop events. and he grossed better than 600k last year, beside the wsopme.

an average player.

i propose we make these judgements based on more than a few hours of video footage.

[2_hotty]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

ah yes, an average player with 2 wsop rings and 9 cashes combined at wpt and wsop events. and he grossed better than 600k last year, beside the wsopme.

an average player.

i propose we make these judgements based on more than a few hours of video footage.

What he said.

[KYBill]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

ah yes, an average player with 2 wsop rings and 9 cashes combined at wpt and wsop events. and he grossed better than 600k last year, beside the wsopme.

an average player.

i propose we make these judgements based on more than a few hours of video footage.

Jeeze jojo, is he your brother or something



I still am not impressed!

[jojobinks]

no, he's not my brother. it's just a pet peeve of mine. there's no other sport where we so see so little of the participants but judge them so harshly and so confidently.

in one year of watching michael jordan, (when i was a freakish fan), i'd see him play for 100 games X 40 minutes per game.

but in two years of watching poker on tv, i've probably seen the most exposed guys (gus, lederer, doyle, rocks and rings, etc), maybe 10 hours each. 2/3 of that time they fold or i'm fast forwarding past a commercial.

it just doesn't make any sense. so, when possible, i think you've got to go to the data. arieh's results have been strong. his play that i've seen has been strong. and you know about that thing that looks like a duck, walks like a duck...

[MacGrad]

Originally Posted by KYBill

Jeeze jojo, is he your brother or something

I still am not impressed!

I think you're being a little hard on him... especially since, by this logic, I've apparently made "the greatest laydown in home game history" when I folded a queen-high flush to a full house...