[jojobinks]

i'm not anxious at all. either a fold is right and someone's got something, or calling it down is right and they guys are complete donks.

what's the difference? unless you're darv...

what i think; he folded, and the guy that won had something dumb (better than QQ, though).

[coyote]

Originally Posted by Murf

If you are going to call to see the river, then why wouldn't you bet up to or around what you would call, and fold to a raise? That way, you end up paying the same ammount to see the river, and retain the image of a strong hand.

You really need to rethink this. If you bet and are raised, you are most likely folding, or paying twice what you would have to see if the river brings you a Q or club.

betting with the intent of seeing a cheap river card is the wrong line and most likely gets the opposite result of what you are looking to achieve.

check/fold seems like the best play to me. You're way behind on the turn.

edit: I didn't see your last post agreeing with the check/call line.

I'm also very interested in seeing the results.

[SpeakEasy]

I will post results, but first there is something about this hand that no one has noticed, or at least discussed, which was the basis of my decision.

Can anyone figure out what it is?

[TomHimself]

you think you have the pot odds to call, and/or you think you can still win the sidepot or something

edit-that cant be right, not really a big enough sidepot

results please lol

[Murf]

Originally Posted by SpeakEasy

I will post results, but first there is something about this hand that no one has noticed, or at least discussed, which was the basis of my decision.

Can anyone figure out what it is?

You are putting $111 into a pot of $318, giving you roughy 3:1 on your money, but your odds to make a flush or boat are worse then that?

A player raising all-in after another player has gone in means they want the pot isolated between him and the other. If you fold, they are getting their $111 back, and have effectively gotten 4:1 on their money, meaning that it would be profitable to call with something like K Kx, or J Jx, because they would have a draw to a boat and a draw to a flush that would make it profitable to call with 4:1 pot odds?

[SpeakEasy]

I think Murf’s about got it.

I called.

The primary basis of my decision to call was to win the side pot of $111. There were two pots when I faced my decision: one main pot of $207, and a second pot of $111. MP1 was not eligible for the $111 side pot.

My read was that I was ahead of CO and behind MP1, and that CO had maybe a middle pair (not 99) with one club, or maybe Ace-K. Co's push looked like he was trying to push me out of the main pot because he thought that (1) he was ahead of MP1, or (2) had a decent chance of beating with MP1 on the river, or (3) really wanted to just call the $41 bet, but this would open the door to my big bet on the river and then he would have to fold unless he hit. Under any of these scenarios, the push by CO just felt like I was ahead of CO.

The side pot is laying even money. Since my read was that CO was probably significantly behind me but ahead of MP1, my read makes it an easy call for this side pot.

The second basis of my decision was that it was entirely possible that no one had the K, and I therefore had up to 13 outs to win – 9 clubs for the nut flush, 2 queens for the boat, and 2 fives for the boat. This would make me about 28% to win, for which I need something in the range of 3 to 1 to call. The pot was laying a bit less than 3 to 1, but still hefty. I really didn’t think I was ahead of both players, and I was probably over-counting my outs (someone had a club), but this plus my read of CO for the side pot led to the call. (Yes, I ran through all this during the hand – I took a long time to call.)

Sound reasonable? Well, I guess I over-thought this hand. CO’s play was not nearly so sophisticated.

River was 5. CO showed 99 for full house 99955, beating my 555QQ boat. MP1 mucked and his cards were not revealed.

As CO played this, I think that his push was horrible since his best play with a made boat against a made flush or nut flush draw is to just call the $41 on the turn and milk it. Unless you're reeeeally scared of losing to a 2-outer (like a queen) and want to shut things down on the turn. If another club hits on the river, fabulous for him. His push for $111 more on the turn made no sense to me with the made boat, unless he actually thought I would over-think this hand and call…

Does that make me the calling donkey? Live and learn.

[TomHimself]

I said 99 .
BTW i think your reasoning was fine probaly . when you said that there was reasoning behind your play not yet discussed i thought about the sidepot but didnt think it was big enough. i guess i misread i thought he made it 100+ total not 100+ more. so the sidepot was a little bit more which makes your call fine with your reasoning. tough break

[Murf]

Originally Posted by SpeakEasy

I think Murf’s about got it.

I called.

The primary basis of my decision to call was to win the side pot of $111. There were two pots when I faced my decision: one main pot of $207, and a second pot of $111. MP1 was not eligible for the $111 side pot.

My read was that I was ahead of CO and behind MP1, and that CO had maybe a middle pair (not 99) with one club, or maybe Ace-K. Co's push looked like he was trying to push me out of the main pot because he thought that (1) he was ahead of MP1, or (2) had a decent chance of beating with MP1 on the river, or (3) really wanted to just call the $41 bet, but this would open the door to my big bet on the river and then he would have to fold unless he hit. Under any of these scenarios, the push by CO just felt like I was ahead of CO.

The side pot is laying even money. Since my read was that CO was probably significantly behind me but ahead of MP1, my read makes it an easy call for this side pot.

The second basis of my decision was that it was entirely possible that no one had the K, and I therefore had up to 13 outs to win – 9 clubs for the nut flush, 2 queens for the boat, and 2 fives for the boat. This would make me about 28% to win, for which I need something in the range of 3 to 1 to call. The pot was laying a bit less than 3 to 1, but still hefty. I really didn’t think I was ahead of both players, and I was probably over-counting my outs (someone had a club), but this plus my read of CO for the side pot led to the call. (Yes, I ran through all this during the hand – I took a long time to call.)

Sound reasonable? Well, I guess I over-thought this hand. CO’s play was not nearly so sophisticated.

River was 5. CO showed 99 for full house 99955, beating my 555QQ boat. MP1 mucked and his cards were not revealed.

As CO played this, I think that his push was horrible since his best play with a made boat against a made flush or nut flush draw is to just call the $41 on the turn and milk it. Unless you're reeeeally scared of losing to a 2-outer (like a queen) and want to shut things down on the turn. If another club hits on the river, fabulous for him. His push for $111 more on the turn made no sense to me with the made boat, unless he actually thought I would over-think this hand and call…

Does that make me the calling donkey? Live and learn.

He had a made full house when he pushed? Wow... it seems like he got overexcited with all the action and pushed in because of that. I don't think he was trying to get you to over-think it. His 9's full were beat by AA (which would have raised the flop big because of the flush board) and by 55 (which would be a hard hand to put someone on and fold because of). Well, how did the night end? Rebuy and make back your money?


And wow, I figured it out?

[Audioflow]

Sorry is some of this has been said (i'm pressed for time)

With 99 i think he screwed up on the flop.
Then, he screws up AGAIN after making his boat.
(that's why i didn't like the 99 read on him)

Speak, i do agree with your thought process. Early on i mentioned that it seamed like an isolation play to me.

[TomHimself]

he played 99 great IMO, he couldve smooth called turn, but speak showed strangth so he/she figured speak would call anyway