[brianseto]

Hi all. Got knocked out early in a NLHE tourney tonght.

Blinds 200/400
everyone starts with 5000

I'm in the SB. I've got 10-7 offsuit. I know it's a garbage hand, but everyone limps in, so I call the BB. The BB checks.

Flop comes

7s-??-?s

Everyone checks to me. I raise all in 3400 (trip 7's). BB folds. Everyone else folds except the player to my right. He's only got 3700 left. After thinking about it, he calls.

Turns over As-4s

turn card: 6c

Of course, he outdraws me at the river with a flush.

Was raising all-in after the flop with trip 7s a poor decision on my part with two spades on the board? Or was he crazy for going pretty much all in (if he had lost, he would have had $300 left) on a draw?

Thanks in advance
Brian

[dad604]

Not a good call with the draw. Approximately 3-1 to make it. Also I would not have bet allin with trips, about 3/4 to pot would be about right.

[ThorCavalier]

I'm assuming that the ?? was meant to be 7?.

How many people limped into the pot? What was the pot total when you raised? based on what I can get from the scenerio you were justified, and he made a bad play. I can't see how he was getting the proper pot odds to call. even if the whole table limped in. I think you just have to shrug it off. Many people don't use reason when thinking about calling a flush draw. They just see a good draw and go for it. You just have to trust that you played correctly regardless of the outcome. In this case I think you did. Though you might have done better to bet half the pot and see what happens. If the one guy calls and the 3rd spade doesn't hit, then go all in and put him to a harder test with only one card to come. If a spade hits, make a probe bet and if he raises drop it and move on. You may have been able to play it so youu didn't go out, but considering the 2 spades on board you made a justifiable play, and they made a bad call.

[dad604]

Also, if you are the SB, how can everyone check to you since you are the first to act on the flop?

[Phaetos]

Originally Posted by dad604

Also, if you are the SB, how can everyone check to you since you are the first to act on the flop?

Good point, didn't even catch that till you saw it.

[yeltzen]

Am I the only one that laughs every time someone starts an "analyze my hand" post with... "I know it wasn't a good hand, but..."? His call was horrible but why would you be willing to risk all of your chips on that hand that early? Seems like you were just asking for this. If the flop was all rags (I don't know what ?? and ? are), he may have thought you were bluffing.

[vrecksler]

In online play the all-in after the flop is taken for a bluff a lot, so even though you had a strong hand a better move would be a nice bet of around pot size or twice the pot. I am kind of against the 3/4 pot size bet because that is more of probe/continuation bet size, a feeler bet to take the pot down with nothing but you have a hand and you want to get some value with it. You are not giving anyone pot odds to call, and most people take this sized bet to mean you have something, overbetting the pot like that looks like a weak move most of the time.

If you get called with that bet, normally you would be happy but with 2 spades out there you would have to bet again after the turn to make the other person have to really pay for that last card, however I would still not go all-in. Freerolls are funny in that the action is always pretty loose, not quite as bad as play money games but no one minds so much if they bust out since there is usually another freeroll starting up shortly after. So it may have been the case that no matter what you did in that hand, the person with A4s was going to stick around to the end.

[brianseto]

Thanks for all of the replies, guys.

I guess you're right about the freerolls. I've played in this series 3 times, and until the final table, like 95% of the hands go to the river. And I've gotten knocked out by the river the past 3 times I've played.

I was wondering how one plays those kinds of tourneys. The blinds are very quick - every 20 minutes. If I value play a lot waiting for hands, I get killed by the blinds. If I make a move, I get called every time.

[vrecksler]

While I am by no means a freeroll expert, I do try and play a couple times a week and have finished in the money a couple of times but more often than not I finish out of the money.

Anyway, the only way you can survive these massive pools of 2000 players is to get lucky a few times, and that is not always going to happen. You need your good hands to make money, and you need to suck out sometimes too.

With that in mind, I tend to play super tight early on when guys are trying to double up with garbage like A low, paint, or anything suited or connecting. When I do get a solid hand I raise quite a bit; if the blinds are at 25/50 I would raise around 350 to limit the field. This seems to work better than all-in but I usually still have to deal with 2 or 3 callers and from there play ultra agressive. If I hit top pair I either bet it strong or push all-in if my kicker is solid because online people love to see flops, but once they see the flop if they did not get anything they will STILL stick around for the miracle card if it is cheap enough. I never do anything fancy like check-raise because you will just get called, and rarely to I bluff in the early stages.

I play that way until the first break, by that time the field is down to around 1/4 but the blinds are now pretty big. From here on in you will likely have some big stacks at your table who can afford to stick around after the flop if the caught any piece of it, so I often will not give that chance. If I get a strong hand I will push all-in pre-flop and let it ride. It is risky for sure, but after the break I think play becomes a little more reasonable and you can pick up blinds and if it is showdown here is where you need the best hand to hold up, or to suck out a little.

Hope that helps, it has worked for me as I almost always make it to the first break but cracking the top 28 (at PokerChamps, where I play the freerolls) is tough for me still.

[Limit Breaker]

Originally Posted by brianseto

Hi all. Got knocked out early in a NLHE tourney tonght.

Blinds 200/400
everyone starts with 5000

I'm in the SB. I've got 10-7 offsuit. I know it's a garbage hand, but everyone limps in, so I call the BB. The BB checks.

Flop comes

7s-??-?s

Everyone checks to me. I raise all in 3400 (trip 7's). BB folds. Everyone else folds except the player to my right. He's only got 3700 left. After thinking about it, he calls.

Turns over As-4s

turn card: 6c

Of course, he outdraws me at the river with a flush.

Was raising all-in after the flop with trip 7s a poor decision on my part with two spades on the board? Or was he crazy for going pretty much all in (if he had lost, he would have had $300 left) on a draw?

Thanks in advance
Brian

Mistake 1: Calling from the small blind with 10-7o. You were lucky to hit a set of 7s, but that's rare. What you should have done was fold your hand from the SB. If a 10 came up, your kicker is still weak. If a 7 came up, and rest of the flop was low, with all the limpers, someone had to be on a straight draw. Never ever call in the SB with a hand like that unless everyone folded to you. That's jsut asking for trouble.

Mistake 2: Why would you raise all in with so many players in the game and 2 spades on the flop? Someone is probably on a flush draw and will most likely call. You're giving them 2 chances to make the flush.

What you should have done was make a decent bet of 1200 (about 1/3 of your stack). Anyone who didn't catch anything (except maybe those on a draw) will fold. You don't want to slowplay here, but you also don't want to make a big bet because it looks like you're trying to steal the pot and anyone on a draw will definately call and you might lose a lot if the flush hits. With a bet of 1200, what that does is that someone who made a pair on the flop may call and add to the pot. Also, if the spade did come, you aren't totally pot committed to call a big bet.

At this point your only concern should be the ones who are on a draw because it's unlikely someone can beat your set.

Even if you had gone all in after the turn "dead card" came up, everyone probably would have folded.