[TwinTowers]

Im in the BB with pocket 7s and it gets folded all the way to the small blind who just limps in...

...its fairly early in a no-limit holdem tourney (15-25 blinds in a T1000)

...with my 77 I decided to raise the limping SB to 60; he quickly folded.

I sensed that he wasnt strong, and put him on one over and one under card. I felt like I stealing the blinds, which is good, but I WAS THE BIG BLIND. Its always better to win 25 than to lose 25, but Im thinking I should have tried to win a bigger pot. Maybe spike trips, or see some low cards. Maybe I lose the bllind, but maybe I win a bigger pot.

Does anyone have any thoughts about raising the bet with a middle pair just to win ONE bet?

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by TwinTowers

Im in the BB with pocket 7s and it gets folded all the way to the small blind who just limps in...

...its fairly early in a no-limit holdem tourney (15-25 blinds in a T1000)

...with my 77 I decided to raise the limping SB to 60; he quickly folded.

I sensed that he wasnt strong, and put him on one over and one under card. I felt like I stealing the blinds, which is good, but I WAS THE BIG BLIND. Its always better to win 25 than to lose 25, but Im thinking I should have tried to win a bigger pot. Maybe spike trips, or see some low cards. Maybe I lose the bllind, but maybe I win a bigger pot.

Does anyone have any thoughts about raising the bet with a middle pair just to win ONE bet?

the only time i'd make a move in that situation is if it were later in the tourny and 1) the blinds are substantial and/or 2) i have a solid read on the limper.

otherwise, i agree, i check and see a flop. i find that flopping a set is helpful in this situation.

[ejlmoney]

Twin,

I actually like your raise. It shows other players you will defend your BB and other players will think twice about raising in late position with nothing. Furthermore, if he calls you have position post flop. You don't want him getting lucky with a hand like K,5 or J, 8 because he limped. The flop would have to hit BOTH of you to make a bunch of money and you're only going to flop a set once every 7.5 times. You won enough for one orbit; take it and move on.

My .02

[JohnyChimpo]

I agree that taking this hand before the flop is the right play. 77 is a nice hand, but is no power house. Say 8 9 J flop, now your dead. He coulda limped with any of those cards. If you both check and your 7 comes on the turn, a 10 smokes you plus any over pair. It was a good play, maybe you woulda flopped a 7 and won a monster. But with an aggressive player and a couple over cards you probable would be in trouble after the flop. Just my $0.02.

[VARoadstter]

As to those who say raise it up, I say, why? So what if the board comes up KJ9. Throw the hand away! It's only a little pot, you don't have to win every one of them.

Check it. The deception is worth it.

[DoubleDeuce]

I usually like the wait and see attitude but something has to be said about protecting the blinds.

I've been playing a lot more games online now and I've had a couple where I happened to catch good cards from the BB. I would raise or reraise preflop early and the middle part of the tourney and once I showed down a couple of good hands then I got a lot of respect from that point on. It was almost comical once we got down to 4 or 3 players and everyone would fold to me when I was in the BB. Which was extremely helpful when the blinds were that size late in the tourney.

Its great against loose players who like to limp in. Once they find they can't see a cheap flop they will only play premium hands which makes it a more straight forward game. The thing to watch out for is the limper with a monster hand waiting for your raise.

[VARoadstter]

Originally Posted by DoubleDeuce

I usually like the wait and see attitude but something has to be said about protecting the blinds.
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Its great against loose players who like to limp in. Once they find they can't see a cheap flop they will only play premium hands which makes it a more straight forward game. The thing to watch out for is the limper with a monster hand waiting for your raise.

If it's limped around to you then it's not so much protecting the blinds as it is protecting your hand. To stay in with a hand in the face of a raise would constitute protecting the blinds.

That being said, your point about not allowing loose players to play trash against you is your main concern with limping in. With careful observation you can make enough of a judgement about your opponent's looseness to guide you through this. The thing about limping is you don't have nearly as much information about what your opponent's hand(s) is/are that you would have if you had put in a raise. Then there's the consideration of what the raise's likely outcome will be - to drive out trash hands. After the flop and beyond you know that the cards held by your opponents are stronger if they stayed in after your raise so you have a much better chance of putting them on a specific holding. If you limp, what you are primarilly looking for is to pick up a well disguised monster. The other benefit here is that in general the hands you will be up against will not be as strong (since you didn't drive them out). My preference is usually to look for the big hand and get a big payoff. My decisions postflop are trickier but I've gotten used to it.

[SpeakEasy]

If you're really feeling confident about your read, just push it all in from the BB, then show your hand when they fold and say loudly "No limping on my blind, you bastards!"

They WILL think twice about their actions when you are the BB, and you will likely be able to get an even better read when you are BB on future orbits.

(This advice assumes live play.)

[w16227]

Checking your BB with a decent medium holding is a recipie for trouble. I have never read anywhere that slowplaying 77 is a good idea. The exception would be where there are several (4+) limpers and the pot - where you will get paid big when you hit a set.

Just think about the hands that the SB could be playing here.

a. Strong-monstar hands and he is trying to trap you ( AA-TT, AKs etc).
b: Marginal hands that he would want to see a flop cheaply with (65, TJ, any 2 suited etc)
c. Random junk that most players will see for the cheap 1/2 blind call (like 72 suited, 93 etc).

The preflop raise will not only define your hand as strong - but may help weed out the junk hands that will cost you $$$. You will get rid of the "c" hands -and many/most of the "B" hands. With 77 - you want a flop with all baby cards - or at most one over to continue (and htting the set is mint). By not getting rid of the junk hands - the 569 flops are now trouble as there is now a reasonable chance that they hit the other player (you cannot discount ANY cards at this point). A preflop raise showing strength may even get a player with q-9 in this situation to fold to a postflop bet/raise fearing their kicker - or that you have an overpair (assuming that the SB is not the total idiot we run into all of the time online).


Or even - look at this in a pot odds/fundamental theorm of poker standpoint. If you do not raise in this situation, you are giving him pot odds to call you with almost any hand. You are allowing for their call to be correct with just about any cards.

[JohnyChimpo]

w16227 is absolutely right, you can't slowplay 77, your asking to get broke. I play to win pots, big or small. If I pick up the blind it'll pay for my next blind. I'd rather win that small pot than lose it any day. That's just me though.