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06-23-2005, 11:49 PM
|  | Big Stack | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ladera
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| | | Who is wrong??
I need some help. We were playing a No Limit cash game the other night and we could buy-in for $20 in chips at a time. At one point, I had about $40 in chips when someone wanted to get back in for another $20. Due to the limited # of chips we had available he paid me $20 and I gave him $20 in chips. That left we with around $20 in chips left and $20 cash.
After about an hour, I was down to about $3 in chips and my $20 cash. It was getting late and I wanted to head off to bed, so I went all in for my last $3 in chips before the flop. 2 other players with chips continued to play the hand. After dealing the river, one person put in a big bet, and the other player folded. The person who put in the big bet complained that I should not have been able to go all in for my $3 because I had still $20 cash and that I should have to call his bet or fold. He ended up having the better hand anyway, but who is right? Was I correct in going all-in with $3 in chips when I still had $20 in cash, or should the $20 cash be considered chips and still be in play.
Thanks for your help.  |
06-23-2005, 11:58 PM
|  | Big Stack | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the wonder of it all Age: 34
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| | | Well, I don't let players take money off the table, so I would say you had $23 left, not just $3. |
06-24-2005, 12:19 AM
| | Big Stack | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ladera
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| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey Well, I don't let players take money off the table, so I would say you had $23 left, not just $3. | I totally forgot about my $20 in cash because me and my other friends usually play tourneys. |
06-24-2005, 12:33 AM
| | Big Stack | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the wonder of it all Age: 34
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| | [quote="daveyboy"] Quote: |
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey I totally forgot about my $20 in cash because me and my other friends usually play tourneys. | I understand it was an honest mistake, and see how it could have happened. I was just saying I'd condsider your $20 bill as chips in play, that's all.
In a friendly home game if someone mentioned it in the middle of the hand, I'd probably either let the $3 all-in stand, or give you the chance to either bet $23 or fold and take back the $3. Probably the latter if no other action had been made.
On a side note, your OP made me think about something else. Why is it when someone wants to stop playing, they go all-in with their last hand if they're short? People do it on Party all the time. Is it just pyschological? I'm losing, so why not just throw it in? (I'm not picking on you Dave, I just see it all the time, and it's not something I really do). |
06-24-2005, 06:54 AM
| | On the Bubble | | Join Date: Jun 2005
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| | | I think this comes down to house rules. Down in AC you can't place bets with bills it has to be in chips. I could have 10K stacked up there and it wouldn't matter. |
06-24-2005, 06:59 AM
| | Big Stack | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ladera
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| | [quote="SpaceMonkey"] Quote: |
Originally Posted by daveyboy Quote: |
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey I totally forgot about my $20 in cash because me and my other friends usually play tourneys. | On a side note, your OP made me think about something else. Why is it when someone wants to stop playing, they go all-in with their last hand if they're short? People do it on Party all the time. Is it just pyschological? I'm losing, so why not just throw it in? (I'm not picking on you Dave, I just see it all the time, and it's not something I really do). | Before the hand, I thought, if I have decent cards, I will go all-in because I was getting tired, I was pretty much still even at that point, and I wanted the watch the end of the Spurs game. The pots were reaching at least $10 per hand, so going all-in before the flop with my $3 with a decent hand was not a big deal (so I thought). After the flop, I had a flush draw and ended up with a pair of Jacks after the river. The winner had a set of 4's to beat me.
My question now is, in that same scenario, if you were playing at a poker room and had $40 chips, could you actually go to the cashier and cash in $20 of your chips and only play with the rest. Is that allowed? |
06-24-2005, 08:01 AM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: looking for a soft 2-7 lowball game Age: 41
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| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by daveyboy My question now is, in that same scenario, if you were playing at a poker room and had $40 chips, could you actually go to the cashier and cash in $20 of your chips and only play with the rest. Is that allowed? | You'd have to give up your seat to cash but if it were still available you could repost and get right back in there.
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06-24-2005, 08:14 AM
| | On the Bubble | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fairfax, VA
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| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Pkrcp I think this comes down to house rules. Down in AC you can't place bets with bills it has to be in chips. I could have 10K stacked up there and it wouldn't matter. | I think it's correct that it is a house rule. Robert's rules of poker states that cash is not permitted on the table at any times.
But...
I'm not sure about the Atlantic City rule. It was my impression that when you see people at the table with all that cash under their chips, it's so they can get more chips in the middle of the hand (why else would they do it?).
I beleive the money is considered in play if it's on the table. Hence the name table stakes. You are able to change money into chips in the middle of the hand, as long as it is on the table.
So I think daveyboy's friend is correct. An all in bet would have included the $20 in cash. Although in a friendly game, I think you need to let those things slide. |
06-24-2005, 08:23 AM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Chicagoland Age: 33
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| | | In Vegas, I've seen cash on the table. One guy at our table wanted to buy chips, but the dealer tray was either short or change was coming. Something like that, I don't remember exactly. Anyway, he bought chips from another guy at the table. The dealer said it was OK and even made sure that the bill had to stay on the table. I guess technically that money was still in play although this was a limit game and it wasn't likely it was going to be going into the pot.
In a home game, all bets are off. Typically though, ratholing is frowned upon. Not saying that's what you did since it was an honest mistake. But in general, you can't take cash off the table until you are done playing. |
06-24-2005, 10:28 AM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Warren, MI Age: 32
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| | | Buying chips off of another player happens all the time at the casino. When in a 50.00/100.00 buy-in no limit table, players are constantly buying chips off of one another. The bills that are used, stay on the table and is money in play. With a limit on the buy-in (much like your $20 cap) you have to keep account of all money in play.
Let's say you didn't change someone up for that 20 bucks, and still had it in chips. Would it be fair for you to go in for $3.00 only, no matter what action happened after? Of course not.
In my game, if you said "all-in" it would have been for $23. |
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