[DoubleDeuce]

So I'm debating about entering a local tournament that has antes. I've only played with them once before and that was the very 1st time playing NLHE. Needless to say I didn't have a clue about position let alone the difference antes make in the game.

So how do antes effect the game? How does it hit the pot odds? More limpers? Are the preflop raises much bigger?

[VARoadstter]

Here's a quick summary of the effects of antes:

1) Larger pots (than just SB and BB)
2) Reduces the burden of posting somewhat for the guys in the blinds
3) Limping is cheaper since you only have to call the BB


Now, strategically you focus on the last effect - limping. If the table is passive then the "like to limp" crowd will love it. They can play hands much more cheaply than they would normally so they are encouraged to get in there. If you are aggressive and in late position, though, you'll have a chance to snap off a few extra chips when you bring it in for a big enough raise as those EP limpers now have to admit that they are playing speculatively and they fold.

In general I think antes actually give position players an even larger advantage if they are going to raise it up instead of limping. If the button allows the EPs to limp and just limps in with them, then he's actually given away some of his positional advantage. This is basically true with no antes as well but since the price to play a hand is cheaper then there will probably be a few more players willing to play marginal hands in earlier spots.

[smoore]

VA's right.

On a more theoretical level, antes favor:

Players with position on any given hand.
Players that understand fold equity and pot equity.
Players that have a firm grasp of how to cut down odds.

antes hurt:

Players that habitually raise too little.
Players that don't think about position.
Players that can't grasp express and implied odds.

[DoubleDeuce]

Do the blinds have to post antes as well or is that just for the rest of the table?


So what is considered a strong pre-flop raise? Usually in my games 3 to 4x the BB is enough to weed out the trash. With the antes though the limpers might still have resonable pot odds to call in certain situations.

Just from experience for the people that do play with antes: Do you notice people playing more suited connectors, 1 gappers, drawing hands, etc?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just curious, when you say it's a tourney with antes, does that mean they are using antes instead of blinds? Or just the normal blinds, but also with antes starting right from the start?

In every game I've played, the blinds have to ante just like everyone else. I have had a couple of people try to argue that point with me though.

When raising, I'd consider all the antes out there as you would when raising a pot with limpers. If you would normally open a pot for 3-4x the BB, you have to adjust that up if there are limpers. Otherwise you are potentially giving them good odds to call even with speculative hands.

From my experience, I've generally only introduced antes later into my blinds schedule. By then, a lot of the speculative play with connectors and gappers is gone. It's too expensive with the high blinds. You'll rarely get enough people in a pot to get the proper odds to play those kind of hands as you normally would. It's one thing to try and steal with them, but playing them to flop a big hand is just not likely enough. You're likely to be playing catch-up with any hadn that does happen to call a steal attempt.

[VARoadstter]

Antes are paid by everyone. I've NEVER heard of the blinds getting a discount. I also can't remember any HE tourney where there were antes right from the start.

Now, if the OP was indicating that the tourney used antes instead of blinds then that's a whole different animal. In that circumstance the concept of EP, MP, and LP shift around to accout for the two added spots (since they aren't in the blinds anymore). Position is still the order of the day. The only real difference in strategy is that PF the button no longer has to worry about someone in the blinds having a big hand and reraising him. Stealing the blinds would also dissapear. In general, I would expect this setup to play a little tighter than one with blinds since noone is being offered a discount to continue in the hand.

Using blinds is an important part of HE. I would discourage any setup that didn't use them.

[DoubleDeuce]

No, its blinds with antes. I've just never played that style before so I wasn't sure if they considered the blinds exempt from posting an ante or not.

Here is what the format looks like:


Players start with $10000 chips.
Each level will last 30 minutes. 10 minutes break after every 3 levels.

Level 1 --- 25/50
Level 2 --- 50/100
Level 3 --- 100/200

******* 10 minutes break *******

Level 4 --- 100/200 Ante 25
Level 5 --- 150/300 Ante 50
Level 6 --- 200/400 Ante 50

******* 10 minutes break *******

Level 7 --- 250/500 Ante 50
Level 8 --- 300/600 Ante 75
Level 9 --- 400/800 Ante 75

******* 10 minutes break *******
Remove $25 chips

Level 10 --- 500/1000 Ante 100
Level 11 --- 600/1200 Ante 200
Level 12 --- 800/1600 Ante 200

******* 10 minutes break *******

Level 13 --- 1000/2000 Ante 300
Level 14 --- 1200/2400 Ante 400
Level 15 --- 1500/3000 Ante 500
Level 16 --- 2000/4000 Ante 500
Level 17 --- 2500/5000 Ante 500

[Spaceman Spiff]

That looks like a very reasonable structure. Should be plenty of time to play some hands without feeling too much blind pressure. It looks like a format very similar to WSOP. The antes coming in fairly early will help accelerate the action.

If you're still at full tables by level 5 or 6, it's going to be huge to be able to pull off some steals. You can pick up around 1,000 chips each time you're able to do it.