AK on the button vs Mr.Check-in-the-dark

[bentax1978]

I decided to head over to the new poker room at Charles Town (WV) this past Wednesday to check it out. I wasn't a big fan of the old room that opened in 2010 so I was curious to see what the new room was like. Turns out it's a substantial improvement (IMO) and I could see myself heading back on a more regular basis.

Anyway, there were a couple hands from that session that I wanted to post about. Nothing too exciting, but just wondering what others might have done in similar situations.

Playing a not-too-crazy 2/5 table for about an hour or two at this point in the night. A higher than normal number of multiway limped pots preflop and not a lot of large preflop reraises. The stacks at the table are somewhat low for 2/5 (in part because of the $500 max buy-in). I would say most people had $200-500, with only a couple players between $500-1000.

Hero is on the button and sitting with a stack of about $600. Four players limp in for $5/each and Hero raises to $40 with . Folds around to the CO who calls the extra $35 and then checks in the dark. (Villain has a slightly smaller stack than Hero, around $450-500)

flop [pot $102]

Action is on Hero after Mr.Check-in-the-dark's check. Hero c-bets $65. Mr.Check-in-the-dark calls the $65 and then proceeds to check in the dark again.

turn [pot $232]

Once again, the action is on Hero. Hero decides to check (right or wrong, that's what he did). Mr.Check-in-the-dark makes good on his name and for the third time checks in the dark going into the river.

river: [pot $232]

Action is on Hero who now has to decide what to do. Should he check or bet? And if he should bet, how much?

[spikeithard]

thats tough.. 4 card straight out there.. I would check here 60% of the time and bet here about 2/3 the pot 40% of the time. If he re raises , I would tank a bit for effects then fold 80% of the time and call the other 20%. He makes it tough to know what his range is with all of the checking.. sign of super strength trying to bait you in? Or has something like 10Js and was looking to catch up hopefully? I would say here missed draw or a pair.. I think he would have bet something on the end for value after being so passive all that time if he had a straight or set.

but I am still learning.. thats my thought process on this one

[JoseRijo]

Checking in the dark here is probably irrelevant. I think you should bet for value. I'm thinking $150.

[Ronoh]

What hands are going to call a half+ pot value bet here that you have beat? Not much that you are in front of is going to pay you anything and if he shoves you are facing a tough decision.

Check behind, betting is -EV

[albie]

I'm also thinking value bet but a litlle smaller imo. $100 makes it easier to get away if he ships and is easier for him to hero call.

[DrStrange]

First off, we are missing critical information about the villain if hero has played a few dozen hands with him. Is he tricky/trappy? Is he a calling station? Passive or aggressive? This type of information would help Hero make a better decision.

I am going to treat the villain as an unknown, passive, calling station for now.

The fact villain checked in the dark after the turn makes me think he is on a flush draw or a one-pair hand. I expect he would want to bet the river if he held the straight. So Hero needs to make a bet that a mid-pair hand can call - Let's try a $75 bet/fold. (Hero needs to take a vow about the folding part, unknowns just don't check raise here without beating one pair.)

I think the turn check is sound. That type of board is full of draws and made hands. Check in the dark villains are often drawing and one of the obvious draws hit. Let's not tempt fate - villain called one c-bet on the wet flop and now the turn has made it worse.

DrStrange

[bentax1978]

Originally Posted by DrStrange

First off, we are missing critical information about the villain if hero has played a few dozen hands with him. Is he tricky/trappy? Is he a calling station? Passive or aggressive? This type of information would help Hero make a better decision.

I am going to treat the villain as an unknown, passive, calling station for now.

I had no information on the player as I believe he just sat down and there wasn't really much to go on.

Originally Posted by DrStrange

The fact villain checked in the dark after the turn makes me think he is on a flush draw or a one-pair hand. I expect he would want to bet the river if he held the straight. So Hero needs to make a bet that a mid-pair hand can call - Let's try a $75 bet/fold. (Hero needs to take a vow about the folding part, unknowns just don't check raise here without beating one pair.)

I think the turn check is sound. That type of board is full of draws and made hands. Check in the dark villains are often drawing and one of the obvious draws hit. Let's not tempt fate - villain called one c-bet on the wet flop and now the turn has made it worse.

The dark check before the turn did make me think he might have two diamonds or maybe a 7 and a piece (I was thinking maybe something like A7, 87. But in truth, it was impossible for me to narrow the range down very far given the information I had to that point. Normally I'd consider a second shot into the pot, especially if I feel the other player is likely to be on a draw. However, in this case, I have no way of knowing where my hand stands. I can only beat a pure draw (w/o a pair) and I just decided to control the pot size and take the free card.

Anyway, I decided to do exactly what you said. I put a $75 bet out there in the hopes that if he had a piece and draw he would be able to call. If he were to raise, I could be certain enough that my TPTK was beat and would be willing to fold my hand.

Results in the next post...

[bentax1978]

Hero is on the button and sitting with a stack of about $600. Four players limp in for $5/each and Hero raises to $40 with . Folds around to the CO who calls the extra $35 and then checks in the dark. (Villain has a slightly smaller stack than Hero, around $450-500)

flop [pot $102]

Action is on Hero after Mr.Check-in-the-dark's check. Hero c-bets $65. Mr.Check-in-the-dark calls the $65 and then proceeds to check in the dark again.

turn [pot $232]

Once again, the action is on Hero. Hero decides to check (right or wrong, that's what he did). Mr.Check-in-the-dark makes good on his name and for the third time checks in the dark going into the river.

river: [pot $232]

Action is on Hero who now has to decide what to do. Should he check or bet? And if he should bet, how much?

RESULTS

I decide that I am most likely good at this point as I just don't see the Villain checking a straight on the river. He might check a set or two pair, but I'm willing to take that chance. If the Villain does check-raise, I was ready to fold as I agree with DrStrange that it's hard to imagine him check-raising me with less than TPTK in this situation.

Villain calls the $75 and shows and Hero wins the pot. In hindsight, this isn't too far off from what I thought he might have and on some level makes sense given the progression of the hand.

Follow up question, how would other have played the hand as the Villain? Assuming you checked dark before the flop (which I realize most players wouldn't do), would you raise my flop bet with an overpair and a gut-shot? My raise on the button could certainly have been made with a large range of hands (I'll be making another post about a hand an hour later where I raised on the button with 47o), so Villain certainly could have felt his TT was good on that flop.

[DrStrange]

If it were me in the villain's seat, I would have check raised Hero on the flop. The villain doesn't need to make too large a raise, $150 on top of the $65 would be enough I think. This is a good flop for pocket tens, let's put Hero to the test.

The turn card is a nasty scare card for villain to bet again, (if needed). Hero's range doesn't have a lot of sevens, but villain's line is absolutely consistent with a seven or two pair. Middle sized cards, almost connected maybe suited are a sizable part of villain's range. (so is a pair plus flush draw) It would be hard for Hero to continue even if he had an overpair.

I'd say the villain missed a lot of opportunities here, Hero is lucky to be stacking chips.

DrStrange

[bentax1978]

Originally Posted by DrStrange

If it were me in the villain's seat, I would have check raised Hero on the flop. The villain doesn't need to make too large a raise, $150 on top of the $65 would be enough I think. This is a good flop for pocket tens, let's put Hero to the test.

The turn card is a nasty scare card for villain to bet again, (if needed). Hero's range doesn't have a lot of sevens, but villain's line is absolutely consistent with a seven or two pair. Middle sized cards, almost connected maybe suited are a sizable part of villain's range. (so is a pair plus flush draw) It would be hard for Hero to continue even if he had an overpair.

I'd say the villain missed a lot of opportunities here, Hero is lucky to be stacking chips.

DrStrange

I could not agree more in regards to Hero being lucky to be stacking chips on this hand. The Villain in this hand had multiple opportunities to take down the pot. Even a simple bet on the flop (if he didn't check in the dark) would have worked. A check-raise on the flop would have also taken it down, as would a bet or check-raise on the turn. I personally would have played the hand much differently if I were the Villain in this hand