$50 straddle leads to this

[DrStrange]

Playing 1-2 live, seven handed. Its about three hours into the session. Two players are on heaters, everyone else is getting whipped. One of these players has to leave and posts a $50 straddle. (This player scheduled an early departure, not a hit-n-run.)

Cast of Characters:

This is villain on villain action. I am posting this hand because of the huge difference of opinion about how to play it. I don't have doubts at the moment but perhaps Chip Talk will offer some insight.

UTG sits with $550 up from a $60 starting stack. UTG rarely plays in my cash games, but when he does it is always 1/1 or 1/2. I don't know if UTG plays much cash elsewhere, but he plays all the bar freerolls in the area. This is reflected in his play - greatly over values one pair hands, doesn't have a clue about deep stacks, plays a poor mix of calling station with occational unthinking bluffs. I don't know that I have ever seen UTG with a winning session out of maybe 6-10 sessions. I consider him the softest spot at the table. UTG doesn't seem to think about what the other players have or what they might make of his betting.

UTG hasn't ever seen a straddle before this game. This hand will be his first try. He seems guilty about leaving the table early with most of the money so he offers up a $50 as "a chance to get your money back". For what it is worth, I think $550 is significant money to this guy but it isn't his rent or car payment. I think he would rather book a big win rather than flipping a coin.

"Hero" holds the button with a $900 stack on a $500 buy-in. (Hero isn't me in this hand.) Hero and UTG play in the bar games from time to time and are well known to each other. Hero starts the night a thinking loose / semi aggressive. One of the tougher spots at the table. When he gets ahead, like now, he is far more willing to take chances.

The hand:

UTG on his last hand of the night straddles for $50. MP calls $50. Hero is dealt A T and calls. (Personally I either raise or fold here. We are playing very short stacked given the $50 straddle. Given the stack sizes, I'd have raised to $150.) BB calls, UTG checks his option. $201 in the pot, four way action.

Flop T 9 6. UTG and MP check. Hero bets $100. BB folds, UTG pushes for $500, $400 on top. MP folds. Hero owes $400 to call, he is getting 2-1 on his money.

Should Hero fold or call? Why?

DrStrange

[jldecarlo]

Stack to pot ratio of less than 3:1. 2-1 odds to call. Top pair, top kicker. You have to call unless "I think $550 is significant money to this guy but it isn't his rent or car payment. I think he would rather book a big win rather than flipping a coin" means he isn't betting this without a monster.

The huge pre-flop raise has made this a very short stacked game and most players could push with any ten. If he has an overpair (doubtful, with no preflop raise of the straddle) or two-pair or 66, then you likely lose.

L

Edit: What did you want to hit with ATo for Pete's sake?

[bentax1978]

I actually don't think there is an "easy" answer. Part of the problem is that despite how deeps the stacks are for a 1/2 game, they are quite short for a 1/2/50 game

Given you comment that UTG would rather book a big win as opposed to flipping a coin, I have trouble beliving that he check-raised unless he felt he had the best hand (in other words, I doubt he check raised with QJ). Since he straddled and checked, his range is pretty huge and certainlly includes hand like JT, QT, KT that Hero has beat. UTG may feel he's best with any of those hand given how you described his background, sp perhaps he feels a check raise (all-in) is in order with those hands.

At the same time, UTG could have a set, two pair or a straight (I'm dismissing an overpair to the board since he didn't raise preflop). His inexperience with the straddle doesn't help in terms of trying to guess whether he would have checked a pocket pair with his option. T9, T6, 96 are all possible for two pair and would fit with the way the hand played out so far. Even 78 is possible, although I probably wouldn't have pushed Hero all in with the nut straight and no flush draws out there.

So anyway, back to the question at hand, what should Hero do? Well, as you mentioned in your post, if I were Hero I would have either raised or folded with AT on the button given the situation. Given the situation Hero is in now, I'm inclined to fold despite the 2-1 odds on my money. That said, I'm not sure that of all the possible hands I'm now putting UTG on, do two-thirds of them have Hero beat? Perhaps not.

Tough decision in my opinion, but when all is said and done (without more information one way or another), I think I'm folding in this situation as I just don't think we're ahead enough of the time given that UTG checked raised in this situation.

[albie]

Call.

Villain

Originally Posted by DrStrange

greatly over values one pair hands

& hero has the nut one pair hand and only needs 33% equity.

[Harlequin011]

At this point I'm 100% on feel. This is why I suck and internet poker.

If it were internet I would FU call.

[bivey]

As I think this through I realize that the $50 straddle completely distorts any of the information you get from betting action. What does a flat $50 call mean by MP? Why is a call with ATo ok? Is it ok with MP calling (IMO no). What about BB getting involved with two callers? Who has any idea what is going on here?

In pure gambling situation, I ship my cards to the muck. I fold my AT here (would have raised or folded in the first place as well). There's a lot of gamble to call with a second rate TPTK type hand, despite the pot odds. Implied is that someone has something, because this flop did not get contested heads up. Even if villain is on some sort of pity donation play - I rate ATo a poor holding in this situation.

I fold. Why? Because this is just gambling. I play poker to give myself odds and at 2-1, something stinks here. Even though I feel strongly here, I know lots of others are going to push their chips in. I just have a visceral eversion to the play before the flop.

[bivey]

Oh yeah. Dr. S, great post. I like these harder situations.

[bentax1978]

so how did the hand play out?

[DrStrange]

*** Results ***

Hero snap calls - almost a fist pump and gets shown the nut straight.

I thought it was a snap fold, but a wide range of opinions at the table made it obvious that it was a hard choice.

In my opinion - - - we had a typical money losing calling station with his big win 'racked up and ready to cash in', check-raise all-in. I'd expect this type of player to have check called with top pair, maybe even fold to protect his win. While it could have been a bluff, that just doesn't feel right. Best case, Hero is against an overpair and has 5 outs, twice. More likely he has 3 outs or needs a runner-runner full house. (Calling stations with QQ preflop, check their option and wait to see the flop 'to make sure no ace comes'.)

All of us who play casino poker know that a racked up villain who sits back and plays a hand often has a powerful holding. Same thing when you get check raised by a calling station. I felt Hero was crushed and should have saved $400 by folding. Most often Hero is drawing to three outs or less. 2-1 pot odds don't pay off when you are drawing that thin.

I felt the Hero forgot who he was playing against and the special circumstances of the hand. If he had thought about it for a while maybe he would have made a better decision.

DrStrange