Why we have Heros and Villains

[DrStrange]

Someone asked why many of us refer the players as "Hero" and "Villain" in strategy posts. I thought I would break out my answer in its own thread.

The short answer is we tend to have more civil, less personal discussions by calling the player with the exposed hand "Hero" and calling the player(s) with unknown hand(s) villain(s).

The long answer is, well longer.

People often are reluctant to start strategy posts. Many players like to think 'its just my bad luck' or 'I got bullied by the big stack' or some other irrational reason why things went wrong at the table, when many many bad results have their roots in errors, large and small. It is much easier to blame the Poker Gods than have strangers tell us what we did wrong, often in less than polite terms.

It is not easy to start posting hand histories. Most of the time the poster will have made a host of mistakes in the eyes of the folks that make replies. Some of the replies will lack tact and sometimes the orignial poster will be insulted and become equally tactless. When you read a dozen replies in a thread that explain in detail why DrStrange was an idiot and deserved to get felted, its not so easy to remain open to feedback.

It is my hope to insulate the ego of the original poster by using "Hero" rather than their chiptalk handle, or their real life name. So you might say "Hero played like a donkey, rather than DrStrange is a donkey". The purpose of posting hand histories is to have other people review the situation and offer advice backed up with math and logic that help the original poster evaluate his performance. This isn't going to work if the critisism becomes a personal attack in the eye of the original poster. (Ideally, you don't say "Hero played like a donkey" either, rather you say "Hero bet $10 into a $50 pot and allowed the flush draws to profitablly call, Hero should have made a larger bet, say $40. Betting $10 was better than checking, but still the bet needed to be bigger.")

Furthermore, "Hero" has a natural positive connotation. Most folks would like to be the Hero, and they can be in their own threads. We call the players trying to take chips from the Hero, Villains. It IS just like in the comics - but I find it works better than the more personal alternatives.

In my opinion, the goal of strategy posts is to have a constructive discussion of what Hero might do and if mistakes were made, to identify the mistake (backed up with logic & math) and offer alternatives. If the original poster doesn't learn something from his/her posts than they will soon stop posting. If the orininal poster gets too 'ego bruised', they often find it difficult to remain receptive. Using Heros and Villains helps to keep the discussion non-pesonal.

I don't know if you have ever seen a flame war thread - most of us have. Strategy posts can go down in flames fast. That is bad for the thread, the original poster and bad for the strategy section in general. Everything that can be done to insure a happy experience is good for us all.

OK I admit it - I am a Donkey at heart -=- DrStrange

[Mojo1312]

You mean we are not talking about good guys, bad guys??

[Starem Down]

Hero believes Villain did a helluva job on the write up. Well thought out, and Hero thanks Villain for it.

[Jeff]

Strategy discussions make my head hurt, primarily because of the contentious nature of some of the posts.

[abby99]

I love the strategy posts. Keep them coming!

[BRM2290]

Very very nice explanation! Two thumbs up! I thought you forgot about me lol. I like how you explained that in full detail. Sounds like you've been doing this a while lol. I would love to sit down with you and pick your brain.

When i first saw the terms hero and villian, it was before i came to ChipTalk in other poker forums like TwoPlusTwo. A lot of people on that site are in the UK so when they used those terms i thought it was a UK thing or something. I saw them use the terms mostly in online play. I knew what the difference between hero and villian were but wasn't sure why.

So yeah, now i can defrinetly understand why it is used now. It will be a while before i post my own hand history because i feel i'm not ready yet. I'm getting there. I know and understand what all the terms mean but just trying to get used to saying it when talking poker hands and results is a little tougher because i don't do it a lot yet. I'm trying to learn all i can.

Once again, nice job! Whenever i have questions or advice you can be sure i'll be coming to you lol. Thanks!

[jbutler16]

also:

[abby99]

Originally Posted by BRM2290

Very very nice explanation! Two thumbs up! I thought you forgot about me lol. I like how you explained that in full detail. Sounds like you've been doing this a while lol. I would love to sit down with you and pick your brain.

When i first saw the terms hero and villian, it was before i came to ChipTalk in other poker forums like TwoPlusTwo. A lot of people on that site are in the UK so when they used those terms i thought it was a UK thing or something. I saw them use the terms mostly in online play. I knew what the difference between hero and villian were but wasn't sure why.

So yeah, now i can defrinetly understand why it is used now. It will be a while before i post my own hand history because i feel i'm not ready yet. I'm getting there. I know and understand what all the terms mean but just trying to get used to saying it when talking poker hands and results is a little tougher because i don't do it a lot yet. I'm trying to learn all i can.

Once again, nice job! Whenever i have questions or advice you can be sure i'll be coming to you lol. Thanks!

You might find it helpful to write up a few of your hand histories even if you don't feel comfortable posting them. The point of the exercise is learning to think about a hand objectively, and to do the math that you don't have time for in the heat of battle. If we do this enough times, we develop a better sense of how the math actually works, and we can identify our analytical mistakes in order to avoid repeating them too often. The value of posting for feedback is to get valuable input from objective third parties who might pick up on aspects of the hand that you're overlooking.

[BRM2290]

Originally Posted by abby99

You might find it helpful to write up a few of your hand histories even if you don't feel comfortable posting them. The point of the exercise is learning to think about a hand objectively, and to do the math that you don't have time for in the heat of battle. If we do this enough times, we develop a better sense of how the math actually works, and we can identify our analytical mistakes in order to avoid repeating them too often. The value of posting for feedback is to get valuable input from objective third parties who might pick up on aspects of the hand that you're overlooking.

@Abby99- Thank you! I really appreciate the motivation and confidence. I will definetly work on it. Sometime it's hard when your in the heat of the moment to remember what happened, what position you were in, how much you bet on the flop etc etc. I like how you look at it as an excersise. Your right. That's exactly what it is. I really want to develop all the skills to make my game a lot better and to be a better poker player. I've been playing for a few years and i have a huge passion for it. I have always been looking for an activity or a hobby and this is definetly what i love. To me, it's not about the money. Don't get me wrong, yes, the money is good, but i just love the game. I love learning and talking/networking with other poker players. My friends back home aren't into it like i am and they think i'm crazy when i spend more than 5 dollars on cards or 39 cents a chip lol. My family thinks i have a problem lol. I don't really get much support from them when it comes to poker. The way they look at it is that they're all gambling junkies or something lol

Anyway, i don't want to tie up the thread so i'll end it here. Thank you for your feedback and support. Much appreciated!