[beekeeper]

Disclaimer--I just reread this and it's pretty boring. I'm just posting for my own catharsis. Read only if you're really bored.

This will be kind of longish rambling that is intended to be cathartic to me. I'm hoping that by admitting my shortcomings, I can get it out of my system and stop beating myself up for being a regular person (i.e., not a great poker player). Please feel free to admit your own averageness if you feel it's applicable.

Well, until recently my only poker experience has been a weekly home tournament, play money online, and the occasional fun trip to the casino to play low stakes limit. I win consistently in all these low to no stakes arenas.

I decided that I had stopped growing as a poker player and I wanted to test myself. I decided to play higher real casino stakes and play for real money.

I put $50 in Full Tilt and after 2 weeks it's down to $30. I think I've played 12 sit & go's and have only placed in the money once (a 2nd place in a Stud Hi Lo). My first S&G, the first hand I had AKs and someone went all in UTG. I called and lost to a 86o. At that point I thought maybe I was unlucky. At this point, I think I'm just not very good. Yesterday I was in first place in a $2 S&G with 4 players remaining. In 2 hands I was out. I honestly can't remember the hands. I just feel like I'm being outplayed.

I was recently on vacation in Mississippi, playing at the Beau Rivage. Their lowest limit stakes are $4/$8, so I played no limit for the first time ($1/$2). I had only brought $200 to gamble with (thinking that would be enough for $3/$6 limit). Since I was going to the casino twice, I decided to play only $100 at a time (a mistake I think in retrospect). Long story short, I was so intimidated by no limit that I was extremely tight and only played my blinds and JJs or better (which I got once and went out on KKs). I felt like a total fish.

The next night I won enough to buy my way into a $130 tournament. I was knocked out in 11th place (out of 45) when my QQs were beat by A6s. The person who knocked me out had raised UTG and was priced into calling because I could only push for about the size of the pot. Then I went back to the no limit table and played the same way as the night before, pushing my last $50 from the BB when the cut off raised $20 with a 74o and hit 2 pair on the flop.

I know that I went out with my money in good in a lot of cases, but on reflection, I never made money with my chips. I never built my stack into anything, and I just had no idea how to play. I think I played well in the tournament (came back from 2 bad beats earlier)--but otherwise, I'm just another face at the table.

I want to be a better player, but a part of me wishes it was just intuitive to me. I always feel like I'm fighting my normal character to be more aggressive and have that killer instinct.

Ok, I think I feel better now. Thanks for listening.

[gaber6]

I though the general rule was don't call if you can't win. Or don't call at all. If you are going to just call, bet. AK is a drawing hand as well. No need to go all-in with it against a raise.

[Cidertown]

Don't get too down. You aren't a bad player. You win at your weekly game and at limit. That's because you know those games and those people (at least as far as the home game) well. Think of it this way: the other people you play with at those games have the same information you do, but don't win. Ergo, you are better.

So you step into an unfamiliar game and environment, you get some bad luck and you start squeezing too much. It happens all the time. Spend a little time at 1-2 NL and you'll get used to the the rhythm of the game and you'll be able to shrug off the $500 swings (sigh) and still play solidly. I still remember one of the first times I played live, I folded top pair to a guy who raised me with a flush draw, even though I knew he had a flush draw, because I had taken some beats and just chickened out about a 32% chance of losing what was left of my stack. Bad poker.

As for online SNGs, well, you might find super-tight to be a good strategy on some tables. Let the maniacs eat each other up while you move into the money. Sadly, learning all this does cost a bit up front. FWIW when I start floundering, I reread a good poker strategy book or check out a new one. It makes me rethink bad habits I may have gotten into and helps me peg specific mistakes I made (and can't stop seething about). At worst, it gets me thinking analytically about poker instead of feeling lousy about it.

Oh, and in the meantime, buy some chips and instantly feel better.

[jojobinks]

no limit ring games are rough, especially if you're just learning. you can play that supertight strategy and win, though, with a short stack.

sngs can't be played the same way, though. sngs are pretty easy to get good at pretty quickly if you're learning the right lessons. the funny thing about poker is that you can learn the wrong lessons pretty easily (for instance...i called off my chips preflop and lost with ak...therefore i shouldn't call off my chips with AK).

ps: pm sent

[99%evil]

You can't play poker with scared money...it just doesn't work. You need to play like the money is nothing...but with plenty of rebuys in hand. Playing scared...just doesn't work, people know it and look to bust you because they can put you on hands. They know you only play top ten...and if they can catch a low straight or the flop is rags, they know they can bet at it and you'll fold your AK, AQ....

I was guilty of it for a while...then I got divorced and became more liquid...I've been doing much better since then. This weekend I had to leave the game because I was dying from allergies... first time I left a game losing in a while.

[jamby]

I agree with 99 that playing scared or with scared money is bound to result in failure. It's just too easy for others to sense that. As far as struggling to be more aggressive when it doesn't necessarily come naturally, I think that many of us (women in particular) battle with that. Well-placed and well-timed aggression is a huge part of poker success though. If you're uncomfortable in a strange poker room playing with a bunch of unknown players playing at levels above what you're accustomed to and without much of a bankroll you're probably doomed to not do well overall. We've all been there though and it's not worth getting down on yourself about. Just pick yourself up and get back on the horse and learn from the experience. Those of us here who know you, know that you're a skilled and knowledgable poker player and a terrific person too.

[abby99]

You experience was probably influenced by the fact that you were playing at stakes that were very high in comparison to your bankroll. Even before looking at your first hand, you know that one or two mistakes or unlucky hands can wipe you out. The resulting tight play makes you predictable and vulnerable to alert and savvy opponents.

I also agree with 99 that one needs to play at a level where the money doesn't matter, especially when learning something new.

From what I know about Jojo, his PM is most likely spot on.

Good luck!

[eastwik]

I'm by no means an expert when it comes to playing poker. However, I do win on a semi-consistent basis. My general rule of thumb is to avoid letting my opponent see all 5 cards. In that first scenario, calling with AK for all your money is a dicey situation because your still at best roughly 50/50 to a somewhat weak hand like pocket 3s. Never forget that AK is still a drawing hand. If I knew I was going to be able to see 5 cards, I will play 6-8 offsuit 7-10 offsuit, and pocket 2s all day long. Even an awesome hand like 2-4 offsuit is really not that far behind AK going heads up to the flop. Given the right price and payoff potential, I'll go against AK every time with that hand, ESPECIALLY in a cash game. The guy that overvalued that AK in that hand against me is going to go on tilt really hard and be gunning for me so I can tighten up and expect to win a couple more reloads from him. I wouldn't call a very expensive pre-flop bet from him out of position. However, I would call 3 or 4 times the big blind with 2-4 offsuit in position of the raiser to see a flop (occaisionally) if I could put him on AK or AQ pretty confidently.

[beekeeper]

Scared money is a good way to describe how I felt playing no limit. The thing is, even though I'm at a stage in my life where I can treat myself to a $200 game, I grew up kind of poor, and I do think about the value of the money. I would feel better if I was playing with a bankroll that I had built up.

I'm really glad I posted this even though it sounds so pitiful and self-pitying because I actually do feel better now. I know I wasn't playing well, but admitting it makes me feel more accountable to myself! So weird.

It's not that big a deal because I still have fun--just my nagging ego that makes me want to be one of the better players whenever I play.

One thing is sure--I think that playing a no limit ring game on a semi regular basis would really help my game--but I'm not sure I'm ready for it.

Thanks all.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by beekeeper

Scared money is a good way to describe how I felt playing no limit. The thing is, even though I'm at a stage in my life where I can treat myself to a $200 game, I grew up kind of poor, and I do think about the value of the money. I would feel better if I was playing with a bankroll that I had built up.

Define a bankroll for yourself. $100, $1000, whatever. Then play stakes where you have a substantial roll. I know a guy who dropped down from winning at 2/4 to .5/1. With 20 buyins at 2/4, he is way overrolled for .5/1. But, he can play whatever and however he wants without risk of ruin. If he feels like lagging it up, he does.

It's not that big a deal because I still have fun--just my nagging ego that makes me want to be one of the better players whenever I play.

One thing is sure--I think that playing a no limit ring game on a semi regular basis would really help my game--but I'm not sure I'm ready for it.

Thanks all.

Being risk averse myself, I find learning by doing in poker is not the best way to start learning. I learn by reading, hand analysis, CR videos, and then in practice at that table.