[erdiesel]

I hear and read differing opinions on this subject. Let's say you have TPTK for example on the flop however there's two suited cards as well and you suspect villain is drawing to a flush.

What is the best long term play, on the flop with 2 cards to come or with one card to come on the turn?

1) Do you try to price your bet so that he doesn't have the right odds to chase the flush draw? i.e. half pot bet or greater on both streets?

2) Do you want him to chase that flush because 2 out of 3 times he will not hit his flush by the river, hence, price the bet so that he has the right odds to continue calling? i.e. half pot/pot size bets on the turn and let's say 1/4 to 1/3 pot size bet on the turn with one card to come?

3) Do you want to shut him down and prevent him from chasing the flush and price your bet accordingly to not give him the proper odds on both streets?

[noelsarchs]

When I have a flush draw, I rarely if ever hit by the river. However, in every single case where I had top two or even a st8 against a flush draw, I lost or been busted out of a tourney by those flush chasers. The flush chasers just will not ever fold to any bet ever.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by noelsarchs

When I have a flush draw, I rarely if ever hit by the river. However, in every single case where I had top two or even a st8 against a flush draw, I lost or been busted out of a tourney by those flush chasers. The flush chasers just will not ever fold to any bet ever.

And the real tragedy is, they suck out way too often....

[abby99]

In the long run, giving a good price to call is -EV, while giving a bad price to call is +EV. Punish the chasers!

[mac40k]

As always, the answer is "It depends." Are you talking about tournament or cash game? Is the villian a known chaser that won't lay down a draw even when you give him the wrong odds to chase? Is he the type to call a bet on the flop, but fold to another bet on the turn if he doesn't hit, or will he go all the way?

[noelsarchs]

Originally Posted by abby99

In the long run, giving a good price to call is -EV, while giving a bad price to call is +EV. Punish the chasers!

Yes but how do you punish a chaser after they knock you out of every tournament?

Last night I have A7 and flop an A7x with two diamonds on the board and some jerkoff goes all in over the top of me with 2 freakin 6 of diamonds! But this time he does not hit his flush, he hits runner 6 6 to take me out of tournament.

The only way I could punish him was in the chat box calling him the most obscene names you could imagine.

[StevenH72]

Originally Posted by abby99

In the long run, giving a good price to call is -EV, while giving a bad price to call is +EV. Punish the chasers!

Providing you never pay an opponent off when they hit the flush, it isn't -EV, as you win 2/3 times. Although it isn't the most +EV.

It does depend on opponent, if they will never lay a flush draw, get it all-in, if they will lay, then think about giving them more favorable odds.

[PhilTheThrill14]

Originally Posted by noelsarchs

Yes but how do you punish a chaser after they knock you out of every tournament?

Last night I have A7 and flop an A7x with two diamonds on the board and some jerkoff goes all in over the top of me with 2 freakin 6 of diamonds! But this time he does not hit his flush, he hits runner 6 6 to take me out of tournament.

The only way I could punish him was in the chat box calling him the most obscene names you could imagine.

The answer is: You stop being results based and make the right play according the Theory of Poker\odds\math\read.

[erdiesel]

So the consensus is......there is none?

basically price bets so that it's mathematically incorrect for them to call and when they do, and the flush is busted on the river you make the whole sequence +EV in the long run because more times then not they will not hit the flush?

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by erdiesel

So the consensus is......there is none?

basically price bets so that it's mathematically incorrect for them to call and when they do, and the flush is busted on the river you make the whole sequence +EV in the long run because more times then not they will not hit the flush?

ask again. this time, include stack sizes, format (cash or tournament) and a read (will he lay it down? what will he do when he hits it? will he call again on the turn?). maybe you'll get a better answer. it certainly depends quite a bit on those factors.