[jldecarlo]

I know I could have raised PF, and maybe I fold to his reraise. Other than that, I think I'm sunk. What do you think:

PokerStars Game #16759358536: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/04/15 - 20:48:34 (ET)
Table 'Rhodia II' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: turtLe82 ($97 in chips)
Seat 2: fredcgarvin ($95.75 in chips)
Seat 3: NaDa112 ($99.90 in chips)
Seat 4: highwayman2 ($22.25 in chips)
Seat 5: NEVAK ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Qualen ($143.70 in chips)
Seat 7: bigtime4k ($109.10 in chips)
Seat 9: peikko ($175.20 in chips)
NaDa112: posts small blind $0.50
highwayman2: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to fredcgarvin [5d 5c]
NEVAK: folds
Qualen: folds
bigtime4k: calls $1
peikko: calls $1
turtLe82: folds
fredcgarvin: calls $1
NaDa112: folds
highwayman2: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jh 9s 5h]
highwayman2: checks
bigtime4k: bets $4
peikko: calls $4
fredcgarvin: raises $11 to $15
highwayman2: folds
bigtime4k: raises $19 to $34
peikko: folds
fredcgarvin: raises $60.75 to $94.75 and is all-in
bigtime4k: calls $60.75
*** TURN *** [Jh 9s 5h] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Jh 9s 5h Qs] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bigtime4k: shows [Jc Js] (three of a kind, Jacks)
fredcgarvin: mucks hand
bigtime4k collected $195 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $198 | Rake $3
Board [Jh 9s 5h Qs 4c]
Seat 1: turtLe82 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: fredcgarvin (button) mucked [5d 5c]
Seat 3: NaDa112 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: highwayman2 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: NEVAK folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Qualen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: bigtime4k showed [Jc Js] and won ($195) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 9: peikko folded on the Flop

L

[mike33]

Yeah, all but impossible to get away from. Ouch

[jojobinks]

not on a flop like that.

your only hope in these situations is that he slowplays it like an idiot. i see this all the time when he flops a set and i flop tptk, for instance.

i raise pre, he calls
i cbet the A72 flop, he calls
check/check the turn
he bets 40% pot on the river, i call, he shows 77

similar stuff happens with bigger hands too.

[luckychick]

Draw-heavy board in a mult-way pot... lots of hands that re-raise there, very few of which are beating you, I think. Plus, he open limps, which (in my mind) decreases the chance of a set of jacks (although not nines). I think maybe on a drier board with fewer players you can put someone on an overset, but's it's pretty rare... I wouldn't mind seeing some examples if anyone has them. FWIW, to the best of my memory, I have folded an underset exactly once - in 6max limit, about 20 hands after I put "set miner" in a guy's player notes.

[Irish Se7en]

I lost $30 (.25/.5) when I called the bb with 4's out of the sb. 4 ppl to the flop, flop comes AT4. There was a raise, call and I reraised. There was a push by the initial raiser and I called. He had Tens. I just wasn't smart enough to let it go.

[littlebu]

nah that's another board where you can't lay it down. So many Ax hands play the same as the guy with the tens.

Originally Posted by Irish Se7en

I lost $30 (.25/.5) when I called the bb with 4's out of the sb. 4 ppl to the flop, flop comes AT4. There was a raise, call and I reraised. There was a push by the initial raiser and I called. He had Tens. I just wasn't smart enough to let it go.

[daffyd]

I'm a terrible poker player so take this with a grain of salt. But it sounds good in theory...

At these low limits, unless you have an incredible read on the individual, there's no way you can lay this down. Too many people would play the same way as your opponent with a big draw, AJ and probably other hands - all of which are more likely than JJ. If you let this affect your play, you'll miss out on the positive EV from getting your money in with what will usually be the best hand. And that EV will far outweigh the expected loss on the rare occasions when you get hit by set over set.

Regards,

David.

[Harlequin011]

I had a board very similar to this where I hit a set of 5s after some crazy pre-flop action in a B&M.

I laid them down when it was all-in, call as soon the board was reveled.

It was a bad lay down...

I'm going broke on this board with a set of 5s a lot.

[jmc]

You get all his money the times he plays AJ this way -- don't worry about going broke.

[jspearm1983]

You could always hit you one-outer! (Well, not always. about one out of thirty times though.)

That's a hard lay-dwon and if you do get in a habbit of laying it down, most of the time it will be a bad lay-down.