[osumike11379]

Him for limping and then calling it preflop? Me for not raising more preflop or seeing the flush draw on the board (thought with my bet on that flop that would end that - certainly didn't see this one coming)

PokerStars Game #16592903479: Tournament #84034113, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/04/08 - 23:25:04 (ET)
Table '84034113 1' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: gitemdaddy (1420 in chips)
Seat 2: mavrick142 (1490 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: nrharper (1200 in chips)
Seat 4: God's Gift20 (1810 in chips)
Seat 5: loppy38 (1510 in chips)
Seat 6: osumike11379 (1570 in chips)
osumike11379: posts small blind 10
gitemdaddy: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to osumike11379 [Jh Js]
mavrick142: folds
nrharper: calls 20
God's Gift20: calls 20
loppy38: calls 20
osumike11379: raises 60 to 80
gitemdaddy: calls 60
nrharper: calls 60
God's Gift20: calls 60
loppy38: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [4d 3c 7d]
osumike11379: bets 300
gitemdaddy: folds
nrharper: calls 300
God's Gift20: folds
loppy38: folds
*** TURN *** [4d 3c 7d] [Jd]
osumike11379: bets 1190 and is all-in
nrharper: calls 820 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [4d 3c 7d Jd] [2c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
osumike11379: shows [Jh Js] (three of a kind, Jacks)
nrharper: shows [6c 5c] (a straight, Three to Seven)
nrharper collected 2640 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2640 | Rake 0
Board [4d 3c 7d Jd 2c]
Seat 1: gitemdaddy (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: mavrick142 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: nrharper showed [6c 5c] and won (2640) with a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 4: God's Gift20 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: loppy38 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: osumike11379 (small blind) showed [Jh Js] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks


sigh

[littlebu]

If your gonna raise pf it's gotta be more. Here should be approx 120. I woulda just limped along pf at this blind level half the time the other half raise.

[osumike11379]

Originally Posted by littlebu

If your gonna raise pf it's gotta be more. Here should be approx 120. I woulda just limped along pf at this blind level half the time the other half raise.

I can't limp - jojo would beat me down if I did

[littlebu]

Not in a sng. Early = passive, later = aggressive

Originally Posted by osumike11379

I can't limp - jojo would beat me down if I did

[jojobinks]

limping with JJ is fine early on. early play is different. stacks are very deep and there are idiots that will act unpredictably after the flop. in this case, wehre you're guaranteed action, it's okay to just try to flop it hard before putting in money.

here's how littlebu came up with 120, btw:

number of limpers ahead of you = x
bb = y

your raise should be:
3y + xy

in this case 3*20 + 3*20 = 120

[littlebu]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

limping with JJ is fine early on. early play is different. stacks are very deep and there are idiots that will act unpredictably after the flop. in this case, wehre you're guaranteed action, it's okay to just try to flop it hard before putting in money.

here's how littlebu came up with 120, btw:

number of limpers ahead of you = x
bb = y

your raise should be:
3y + xy

in this case 3*20 + 3*20 = 120

see

[JoseRijo]

Why would you limp pre-flop *ever* with the 4th best starting hand?

That early and with that many limpers, I'm making it 150 pre-flop.

[Irish Se7en]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

Why would you limp pre-flop *ever* with the 4th best starting hand?

That early and with that many limpers, I'm making it 150 pre-flop.

I have to agree with JoseRijo on this hand. Bumping this up to 150 would be the best play here. I'm not limping in this situation regardless of how early in the tournament it is.

The 80 raise was weak and looking at the villain's stack (1200) it looks like he's played too many hands early on, so that's why I would bump it up to 150 or more. I would be content with taking it down there too.

[littlebu]

There are a few reasons.

1) There are already limpers, so on a favorable flop odds are you can get someone to pay you off.
2) It makes the hand easy to play. These guys are playing suited Ax's, Kx's, any two pretty cards. Post play is easy now. A board with an over, someones usually hit it.
3) Stacks are deep and the blinds are small. You need to have chips when the blinds get big to shove and steal blinds that matter. I am only getting involved early with a premium hand. JJ is a solid starting hand, but not a premium.
4) We're OOP. You mean noone ever limps AA, KK hoping to reraise a button/blind raise trying to "steal" the dead limps.

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

Why would you limp pre-flop *ever* with the 4th best starting hand?

That early and with that many limpers, I'm making it 150 pre-flop.

[whataboutj]

I tend to agree with Joserio in that I don't think I could ever bring myself to limp JJ pre flop at any point of an SnG or tourney(but now I have something else to try out thanx Bu and JoJo).
I would have raised it to 120+ for sure. That being said with the number of callers I don't see all of them folding even with a raise to 150. With only 60 more to call your raise, large stacks & the number of callers you did get you should be assuming that some mix of suited cards, connectors, and or suited connectors are in the mix somewhere.

Your post flop play is fine too IMO. You made an aggressive bet to see where you're at and try to take the pot down or at least slim the field - which it did. After the flop bet call I would have slowed down, especially when the third diamond came on the turn. That is as brutal as it gets though that it was the Jack of diamonds.

Tuff hand all the way around. We all know that P* is rigged and that's why the flop came off the way it did

Oh and the other reason this was bad was that you weren't playing the Late Night Poker tour game that started less than 30 minutes before