what should I have done?

SheaJ · #1 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 11:13 PM

ok, this just happened and I thought I was playing it right.

I raise pre flop so I figure noone would call with what they did.
I understand the call on the turn with a flush draw.
was this just bad luck, or did I make a big mistake?

I check the flop thinking it was a very innocent one and hoped he would turn a pair so I could let him lead it out.

PokerStars Game #15436164755: Tournament #77444386, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/21 - 00:07:54 (ET)
Table '77444386 91' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: pompier40 (1200 in chips)
Seat 2: luxor1082 (1540 in chips)
Seat 3: muzzy125 (3990 in chips)
Seat 4: Birdman512 (1470 in chips)
Seat 5: sarge73 (1600 in chips)
Seat 6: SMDLION (1640 in chips)
Seat 8: NurseSteph (1470 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: solemole (590 in chips)
solemole: posts small blind 10
pompier40: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Birdman512 [Ac Ad]
luxor1082: folds
muzzy125: folds
Birdman512: raises 100 to 120
sarge73: folds
SMDLION: folds
NurseSteph: folds
solemole: folds
pompier40: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [5d Ah 8s]
NurseSteph has returned
pompier40: checks
Birdman512: checks
*** TURN *** [5d Ah 8s] [4d]
pompier40: checks
Birdman512: bets 120
pompier40: calls 120
*** RIVER *** [5d Ah 8s 4d] [2c]
KDeuce12 is connected
pompier40: bets 300
Birdman512: calls 300
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pompier40: shows [Qd 3d] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Birdman512: mucks hand
pompier40 collected 1090 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1090 | Rake 0
Board [5d Ah 8s 4d 2c]
Seat 1: pompier40 (big blind) showed [Qd 3d] and won (1090) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 2: luxor1082 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: muzzy125 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Birdman512 mucked [Ac Ad]
Seat 5: sarge73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SMDLION folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: NurseSteph (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: solemole (small blind) folded before Flop

making a note to raise this guy more if he is in a blind.

EDIT:
just busted.
got Q9 suited, called small raise pre flop.
flop QJ6 guy puts me all in for my last 700 and I call
he has AA

again, did I do something wrong here too?

Irish Se7en · #2 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheaJ

ok, this just happened and I thought I was playing it right.

I raise pre flop so I figure noone would call with what they did.
I understand the call on the turn with a flush draw.
was this just bad luck, or did I make a big mistake?

I check the flop thinking it was a very innocent one and hoped he would turn a pair so I could let him lead it out.

again, did I do something wrong here too?

Normally I would say you should have bet the flop but since this guy called you with garbage AND now that he's 4 flushing, there's nothing you could have done to get him to fold that hand.

You could have folded the AA preflop.

w16227 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 11:47 PM

hitting the set on the flop rocks - but you need to bet it

there is always a straight draw on the flop if you hit ur set - and you need to punish the draws.

bet more on turn - you have st8 and flush draws out there

not loads more - but on flop/turn u need to be closet to pot size bets. Sure, the $2 tourneys have more chasers that ignore the odds = but then they pay you more when they miss.

they played junk and hit the river - not much u can do there

u had position , and may have been able to fold on the river (lol - i really doubt that I could) if you knew they would not bet the without the flush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheaJ

ok, this just happened and I thought I was playing it right.

I raise pre flop so I figure noone would call with what they did.
I understand the call on the turn with a flush draw.
was this just bad luck, or did I make a big mistake?

I check the flop thinking it was a very innocent one and hoped he would turn a pair so I could let him lead it out.

PokerStars Game #15436164755: Tournament #77444386, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/21 - 00:07:54 (ET)
Table '77444386 91' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: pompier40 (1200 in chips)
Seat 2: luxor1082 (1540 in chips)
Seat 3: muzzy125 (3990 in chips)
Seat 4: Birdman512 (1470 in chips)
Seat 5: sarge73 (1600 in chips)
Seat 6: SMDLION (1640 in chips)
Seat 8: NurseSteph (1470 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: solemole (590 in chips)
solemole: posts small blind 10
pompier40: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Birdman512 [Ac Ad]
luxor1082: folds
muzzy125: folds
Birdman512: raises 100 to 120
sarge73: folds
SMDLION: folds
NurseSteph: folds
solemole: folds
pompier40: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [5d Ah 8s]
NurseSteph has returned
pompier40: checks
Birdman512: checks
*** TURN *** [5d Ah 8s] [4d]
pompier40: checks
Birdman512: bets 120
pompier40: calls 120
*** RIVER *** [5d Ah 8s 4d] [2c]
KDeuce12 is connected
pompier40: bets 300
Birdman512: calls 300
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pompier40: shows [Qd 3d] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Birdman512: mucks hand
pompier40 collected 1090 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1090 | Rake 0
Board [5d Ah 8s 4d 2c]
Seat 1: pompier40 (big blind) showed [Qd 3d] and won (1090) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 2: luxor1082 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: muzzy125 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Birdman512 mucked [Ac Ad]
Seat 5: sarge73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SMDLION folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: NurseSteph (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: solemole (small blind) folded before Flop

making a note to raise this guy more if he is in a blind.

EDIT:
just busted.
got Q9 suited, called small raise pre flop.
flop QJ6 guy puts me all in for my last 700 and I call
he has AA

again, did I do something wrong here too?

imthatguy · #4 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 11:51 PM

Agreed, you must bet the flop. Don't give free cards to anyone.

Irish Se7en · #5 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imthatguy

Agreed, you must bet the flop. Don't give free cards to anyone.

That being said, do any of you believe this guy was getting away from this hand?

If he's going to call with junk, then he's calling all the way down to the river.

*I'm not saying that I wouldn't have lost chips with this hand, the way it was played out. I probably would have lost a lot more.

SheaJ · #6 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 12:07 AM

yeah, I know I should have bet the flop. but I just figured (totally forgetting who Im actually playing against) that with that flop I am pretty safe with a set of A and 5 high on board. assumed he either had mid suited connectors (7-10) or 10J Q10 type of hand.

totally forgot for a moment how stupid people can be.
personally, I would NEVER call with Q3 suited for 100 pre flop. ESPECIALLY that early.
But then again I am not an absolute moron like the majority of people on P*.

one thing I didnt see and I even said it to myself b4 the river was that he had a 3 or 4. so I figured as long as a diamond doesnt come Im good.

EDIT:
I knew when he put out the 300 he had the straight, but I just couldnt fold.
If he bets around 600 I fold, so he made a perfect size bet for me to call.
I hate being right

TheMightyJim2k · #7 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 01:08 AM

not betting the flop, and betting so small on the flop are poker sins. For your offense you must now sacrifice some dice chips, a fake felt table topper, and some cheap 8 deck shufflers.

also do not pass go, and do not collect $200.

but seriously you played the hand worse than him postflop. sorry

Irish Se7en · #8 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 01:14 AM

I'm not saying he played it well post flop but do any of you experts believe the other guy was getting away from his hand?
Even if SheaJ pushed, the other guy was going to follow. The other guy played the hand as well as you could after the flop (I guess) but to call the initial raise was terrible. Then again, he's probably been reading SheaJ's bad beat threads and knew he could get him on Tilt.

TheMightyJim2k · #9 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Se7en

I'm not saying he played it well post flop but do any of you experts believe the other guy was getting away from his hand?
Even if SheaJ pushed, the other guy was going to follow. The other guy played the hand as well as you could after the flop (I guess) but to call the initial raise was terrible. Then again, he's probably been reading SheaJ's bad beat threads and knew he could get him on Tilt.

not saying the other guy played it well. But his mistakes only cost him a portion of one streets bet postflop. SheaJ's mistakes cost him A) the whole pot and B) a chance to win a really big pot if the other player has any kind of hand. The kind of guy that will call huge raises pf with Q3s will certainly make moves with straight and flush draws. So why not bet the flop, make the pot big when you have a big hand. If he wants to come along with his draw that is fine, because we have a big hand.

This is why slowplaying is so bad. Most people play poker the opposite of the way they should. They reaise pf, and then flop the nuts, and then check. WTF? If you aren't going to be the nuts then what are you going to bet? I'm going to fire my whole range at that flop (including everything that hits and misses) so I'm certainly going to fire when I have the nuts.

Also we need to protect our hand from gutshots and bd draws (hmmm that never happens.....riiiiiight). So lets bet. Lets get some freaking value for our hand.

SheaJ's play on that hand is horrendous, and its worse than the other guy. Because SheaJ is obviously smart enough to know better (based on comments in his OP). The other guy gave up about T100 postflop trying to hit his gutter. Shea gave up at least T550 (river bet plus pf bets) by trying to slowplay and letting him get there.

this hand is bad. You must sacrifice crappy poker gear to appease the gods. They are displeased with your passive play.

tomb1 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 08:27 AM

OK, so you check the flop. Not an entirely bad play with that board. Top set, rainbow suits, unlikely straight draw. I can see it some times.

But listen to the other guys -- probably better to bet, and see where you are or take it down.

But if you do check the flop, then you must punish his a$$ on the turn. That's a double draw card and you have to force a bad decision from him if he wants to chase. Push all-in instantly. Does he chase and suck out? Maybe, but you're no worse than what actually happened. Does he fold a bunch of the time? Yes, and then you're ahead.