[erdiesel]

In my quest to get better at poker......was wondering about a few hands from last night:

Question for the first one below is should I have called the pf all in with my AQ suited? I think I should have but i whimped out............of course I don't know what JoJo had, but what would have been the "correct" move here?

PokerStars Game #15136130871: Tournament #68518765, $10+$1 Hold'em No
Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/02/07 - 23:03:59 (ET)
Table '68518765 6' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Lucky 378 (4542 in chips)
Seat 2: TechnoGuru (3050 in chips)
Seat 4: ERdiesel (5970 in chips)
Seat 5: geewhiz41 (4274 in chips)
Seat 6: miandsh2000 (1975 in chips)
Seat 8: thejojobinks (2310 in chips)
geewhiz41: posts small blind 100
miandsh2000: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ERdiesel [Ad Qd]
thejojobinks: raises 2110 to 2310 and is all-in
Lucky 378: folds
TechnoGuru: folds
ERdiesel: folds
geewhiz41: folds
miandsh2000: folds
thejojobinks collected 500 from pot
thejojobinks: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 500 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Lucky 378 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TechnoGuru folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: ERdiesel (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: geewhiz41 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: miandsh2000 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: thejojobinks collected (500)


Question for this second hand is this is late in the tourney, i believe we're down to 10/41 and its only a 5 handed table. With two limpers, ace goes all in so I was thinking he was trying to steal the pot of almost 2400 and with my pocket 5's i would have him beat or at least have a coin flip situation if he had two overcards. I didn't think he was making a play at the pot with pocket A/K/or Q. Did i play this too aggressively by calling his all-in?

PokerStars Game #15136886180: Tournament #68518765, $10+$1 Hold'em No
Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2008/02/07 - 23:44:29 (ET)
Table '68518765 3' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: AceNPlace (2706 in chips)
Seat 2: johnnow (4598 in chips)
Seat 3: ERdiesel (6645 in chips)
Seat 4: ChipTalk.net (6832 in chips)
Seat 6: neweraexst (9435 in chips)
AceNPlace: posts the ante 50
johnnow: posts the ante 50
ERdiesel: posts the ante 50
ChipTalk.net: posts the ante 50
neweraexst: posts the ante 50
AceNPlace: posts small blind 300
johnnow: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ERdiesel [5d 5h]
ChipTalk.net said, "i started at what... 16th?"
ERdiesel: calls 600
msmjcjjjas [observer] said, "I'm working on the team spreadsheet"
ChipTalk.net: folds
neweraexst: calls 600
tomb1 [observer] said, "greg, john, techno playing for prob 2 spots"
AceNPlace: raises 2056 to 2656 and is all-in
johnnow: folds
ERdiesel: calls 2056
neweraexst: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 6d 6c]
ERdiesel said, "dohhh"
ERdiesel said, "nh"
*** TURN *** [3d 6d 6c] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [3d 6d 6c 8c] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AceNPlace: shows [Kh Kc] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
ERdiesel: shows [5d 5h] (two pair, Sixes and Fives)
AceNPlace collected 6762 from pot
ChipTalk.net said, "NH MOM"
msmjcjjjas [observer] said, "w00t!"
mattythatguy [observer] said, "nh Ann"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6762 | Rake 0
Board [3d 6d 6c 8c Qd]
Seat 1: AceNPlace (small blind) showed [Kh Kc] and won (6762) with two
pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 2: johnnow (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: ERdiesel showed [5d 5h] and lost with two pair, Sixes and Fives
Seat 4: ChipTalk.net folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: neweraexst (button) folded before Flop


And finally, the hand that busted me out. Once again late in the tourney 10/41 players, 5 handed table and I get dealt pocket 7's and i'm looking to rebuild my chip stack. I think I was correct in pushing with my 7's with a short handed table and being short stacked. Just want to make sure......since I got rivered with this one (congrats to chiptalk on his win btw, makes me feel better to be busted out by the eventual winner

PokerStars Game #15136926686: Tournament #68518765, $10+$1 Hold'em No
Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2008/02/07 - 23:46:46 (ET)
Table '68518765 3' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: AceNPlace (6662 in chips)
Seat 2: johnnow (4698 in chips)
Seat 3: ERdiesel (2939 in chips)
Seat 4: ChipTalk.net (7232 in chips)
Seat 6: neweraexst (8685 in chips)
AceNPlace: posts the ante 50
johnnow: posts the ante 50
ERdiesel: posts the ante 50
ChipTalk.net: posts the ante 50
neweraexst: posts the ante 50
ChipTalk.net: posts small blind 300
neweraexst: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ERdiesel [7h 7d]
AceNPlace: folds
johnnow: folds
msmjcjjjas [observer] said, "so was I, Ann"
ERdiesel: raises 2289 to 2889 and is all-in
ChipTalk.net: calls 2589
neweraexst: folds
*** FLOP *** [9h 2d 9d]
AceNPlace said, ""
*** TURN *** [9h 2d 9d] [Ah]
*** RIVER *** [9h 2d 9d Ah] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChipTalk.net: shows [Kd Qd] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
ERdiesel: shows [7h 7d] (two pair, Aces and Nines - lower kicker)
ChipTalk.net collected 6628 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6628 | Rake 0
Board [9h 2d 9d Ah As]
Seat 1: AceNPlace folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: johnnow folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ERdiesel (button) showed [7h 7d] and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 4: ChipTalk.net (small blind) showed [Kd Qd] and won (662 with
two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 6: neweraexst (big blind) folded before Flop

[JoseRijo]

Let's get the easy hands out of the way first:

The last hand is hopelessly standard and you played it fine.

The first hand seems awfully weak to me. With J's stack size, I'd push. You have
to ask yourself what his raising range is here, and it's a lot worse than AQ.
You might even get him to fold some small pocket pairs.

The middle hand is the toughest. Why are you limping UTG if you're going to call
Nana's push anyway? Raise pre-flop instead! That close to the final table, I think
I could even find a fold in your position.

[erdiesel]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

Let's get the easy hands out of the way first:

The last hand is hopelessly standard and you played it fine.

The first hand seems awfully weak to me. With J's stack size, I'd push. You have
to ask yourself what his raising range is here, and it's a lot worse than AQ.
You might even get him to fold some small pocket pairs.

The middle hand is the toughest. Why are you limping UTG if you're going to call
Nana's push anyway? Raise pre-flop instead! That close to the final table, I think
I could even find a fold in your position.

Yeah the first hand bothered me the most of all the hands played last night (i posted the wrong hand earlier, jose.....but i corrected it now, take another look please), strange because its a hand that i wound up not even playing out. But yet I feel like i whimped out big time on that one. i think i play a fairly tight but aggressive game, but with that hand i became a sheep.

The middle one............I was limping to get a cheap peek at the flop and if i didn't hit a set, i was going to fold to a big bet. I also like to vary my pf raises, where sometimes i raise pf with low/medium/high pocket pairs and sometimes i don't. I like to vary pf raises for big premium hands as well so that it's more difficult for people who are paying attention to me to put me to a specific range of hands when I come out swinging on the flop.

I think your last point is where I was looking for guidance...........there seems to be two schools of thought on this subject

1) tighten up, make it to the final table and hopefully "cash" but that mentality is more to just "place" then to truly position yourself to win

2) pick spots where you might have to "gamble" a bit, and look to accumulate a large chip stack going into the final table to not only cash, but to actually win.

In this hand's case, Ace was the sb as well as the short stack, and with the antes, blinds, and 2 limpers, the pot was about 2400 when it got to Ace. I seriously thought he was attempting to steal the pot (since he had already posted the sb) with his all in which would have allowed him to almost double his stack without a "fight". At best I put him on an two overcards, i.e. KQ or Ace high or King high. With my pocket pairs against two overs, it would have been a coin flip (slight favor to me), and with one over and one under I would have been almost a 2.5:1 favorite. I never once thought he got dealt pocket K's. well that was my thinking................wondering if i ever come across this situation again, if I could have played it "better"

[scottwire]

my two cents

hand 1-

Reasons to call-
a) you have AQs, pretty good hand
b) you have a big stack that can withstand losing
c) knocking out Jojo helps your chances to win

Reasons to fold-
a) Jojo is under the gun
b) Jojo has > 10 big blinds and is not in desparation mode
c) no antes yet, making Jojo's range even tighter
d) Jojo's range is what AA-99, AK, AQs ? even if you throw in more pocket pairs or some other weaker hands once in a while, AQs still does not fair well against his range.
e) There are still 2 more players left to act who could wake up with a hand

If Jojo was raising from the CO or button or if his stack was a lot shorter, I'd say call. In this case I would respect position and keep your nice stack intact.




hand 2-
a) don't limp with only 10 big blinds, raise or fold
b) once it is raised, don't call off half your stack, push or fold
c) since there is someone still left to act behind me, push to get him out or fold. If newer were not in the hand, you'd be closing the action and should call because of the pot odds. Since he is in the hand, 55 is going to suck if he calls and you don't hit your set. Shove to protect your pair to get it heads up, or fold and wait for another spot.


hand 3-
standard
i'm shoving any pocket pair, any ace, any 2 broadway

[imthatguy]

1) Probably a fold against Jojo. Why risk half your stack on an easily dominated hand?

2) Fold. Late in a tournament, one from the final table, five away from the money. A third of your stack in what HAS to be at best a race. I don't like it.

3) Not much different I'd do there.

[jojobinks]

these guys gave you pretty good feedback, so lemme just say this. there is no "school of thought" that says you should tighten up and just cash. in MTTs there's so little money anywhere than in the top 3-4 spots that you need to get your money in when you think you have a good situation.

in that spot, the blinds are 300/600 (with an ante) and you have 6600. you shouldn't EVER limp in that situation. ever. you're throwing chips away.

if (for whatever reason) you're looking to tighten up and make the FT, then you should throw that hand away to begin with.

[erdiesel]

I see the point about having less than 10 bb's, one shouldn't limp in. thanks.

As mentioned for hand 2, I thought ace was attempting a steal since he was terribly short stacked with less than 5 bb's in a 5 handed table and was going to shove with a greater range of hands.

psychologically, being one away from the final table and short stacked, does the standard "tight" player shove pf in the hopes of stealing the blinds with a greater range of hands such as Ace high or King high, or do they sit it out and wait for the really good premium hands like high pocket pairs, AK or AQ or until someone else busts out.

[JoseRijo]

The new AQ hand is a lot closer, but I think I'm still arrrrrrrrrrrr-in. If
JoJo had aces, kings, or queens here, wouldn't he be more inclined to
throw in a standard raise?

[imthatguy]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

The new AQ hand is a lot closer, but I think I'm still arrrrrrrrrrrr-in. If
JoJo had aces, kings, or queens here, wouldn't he be more inclined to
throw in a standard raise?

You're right, but 10's and below are all pushers in this spot. The question is, do you want to race for half your stack?

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

The new AQ hand is a lot closer, but I think I'm still arrrrrrrrrrrr-in. If
JoJo had aces, kings, or queens here, wouldn't he be more inclined to
throw in a standard raise?

probably not. i'm not inclined to do something conspicuous with my big hands. i'd shove there with Aj, so it'd be sorta silly to do something different with KK.