[xtwalker]

I went down to the indian casino yesterday to play some 3/5 "NL" and ended up on a table of very soft/inexperienced players who almost all bought in short.

At the other end of the table there was a man who talked and talked and talked, telling poker story after poker story, and discussed his strategy and reasoning and showed his cards after every hand he played. I loved it, he had no idea what he was talking about, and was spreading bad advice like wild fire.

The only down side was that this soon infected half of the table. A pro who joined the game shortly after I did complained to 4 different dealers about open talk about hand ranges, strategy, and blatent advice given during hands from 4 or 5 different players, with 1 obvious "ring leader" in the discussions. After a couple hrs of this I talked to the shift manager and told him that I didn't want to point out any specific players or dealers, but some of the dealers were having trouble controlling table talk, and there were several hands that were borderline collusion, and obvious soft play and angle shooting.

I went back to the game and about half an hr later things boiled over in a series of 4 hands that I was involved in.

The first one, there were multiple limpers to me, I put in a substantial raise w KJ on the button and ended up taking down a small pot from someone that claimed to lay down KQ.

The next hand I have the same situation and I raise KQ from the cuttoff and end up stacking the best player at the table (on the button) and took down a $1300 pot. I then heard all the experts telling me what a horrible play it was with KQ, how lucky I was that they decided not to call me pf bc "I would have flopped 2 pr and rivered a full house" (imposible on the board as it played out) or "I would have flopped the flush draw and would have rivered the nut flush"

I foled PF on a hand or two then walked away from the table for an orbit because I didn't want to listen to the moaning. I came back to the table and bought the button. I was dealt AQ. There were four limpers and I raised to $40. Got one caller (the worst player at the table) and the ring leader of the table talk tells him "I was going to push if you hadn't called, he has nothing. If you can call him you are ahead of him, get your money in." It folds around to me. Flop comes all low cards, I bet enough to put the other player all-in, he folds, and I tell the dealer I would like to have him say something about the table talk and obvious collusion in the conversation. The dealer says nothing, the loud mouth starts insulting me and calling me and another player "whinners" and cry babies, then he announces to the table that he knows every move I make and I am so obvious he isn't telling the table anything they don't already know.

The manager that I had talked to earlier is called over, makes the ruling "no table captain, dealer controlls the game, one player per hand, no advice, don't discuss a hand when there is action pending, don't critisize other players, act in turn, and please don't splash the pot"

The very next hand I have AA on the button, there are 3 limpers and I raise to $35. It folds around to the first limper who says "wow, I have a good hand, and could have you crushed, but your range is so wide, you might have J9 or you might have Kings" I looked at the dealer and said "are you going to stop him, this is exactly what we just called the floor over about. He cannot openly discuss my hand range and my play while there is action behind him" The dealer did NOTHING, and the player folded and argued with me that it was his right to say that. I took down a small pot with the AA...

What would you do at this point?

Short version for those who don't want to read the whole rant:

-ton's of table talk, even during live hands, discussing what players should do, mostly revolving around my play as I caught a few good hands.

-Another player had complained to 4 different dealers about it, I had mentioned it to the manager, manager came to the table, clarified the rules and it didn't stop and the dealers did nothing about it.

-"ring leader" had been thrown out the night before for similar behavior (which I found out after the fact)

[ipgyst]

I hope that this alleged "poker room" isn't the only place where you can play live. This alleged "poker room" is responsible for maintaining a fair and proper atmosphere at its tables, and if it can't do that, you shouldn't play there.

On the other hand, it sounds like these players suck, and that if you were tricky and creative then you could use that to your advantage and really beat the hell out of that game.

To what gaming commission does this alleged "poker room" defer? You could always complain to them. Or you could go to the casino manager and tell him how awful his alleged "poker room" is and that you are going to go online and tell anybody who will listen how bad this alleged "poker room" is.

All sorts of options here.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by xtwalker

The very next hand I have AA on the button, there are 3 limpers and I raise to $35. It folds around to the first limper who says "wow, I have a good hand, and could have you crushed, but your range is so wide, you might have J9 or you might have Kings" . . . .

This seems perfectly fine to me as he is still in the hand. Folks do this all the time trying to get a read on someone plus he said you could have anywhere from junk to a good hand so what's the big deal in that case. If he said you could have had anywhere from 72o to AA, what's the difference.

If a hand is still being played, no one that is not involved in the hand should say anything at all. After the hand is over, let them talk about it all they want. In at least one of your examples, there definitely should have been a warning given as it sounds like folks were openly discussing an active hand which is a no no.

[xtwalker]

Originally Posted by hachkc

This seems perfectly fine to me as he is still in the hand. Folks do this all the time trying to get a read on someone plus he said you could have anywhere from junk to a good hand so what's the big deal in that case. If he said you could have had anywhere from 72o to AA, what's the difference.

I completely agree, and actual like and use the tactic, if it is heads up. The issue here (to me) was he was obviously folding (by the way he was acting and holding his cards.) At this point, he is just grand-standing, telling the table how smart he is, and influencing the play of the 2 limpers that are to act after him.

I don't think I would have minded much if this wasn't the very first hand after the floor came over and gave his schpeel about talking about live hands. The fact that the dealer did nothing, even after I asked him about it, really got me though.

[guinness]

Poor staff management exists everywhere...casino or not. You just have to make a decision to take it or not as you've done your best to correct it from a customer point of view.

Theres a restaurant I eat at that has deplorable service...but their burrito is so friggin good I have to return. There are other places with solid staff but I hate the food. Do I have a point? Not really. Maybe its just you need to make decisions versus think about the problem further. Maybe I'm thinking about a choriso burrito.

If its lucrative under this table captain situation, you might want to consider this opportunity as a learning environment. I believe any table game that gets your blood boiling is a great learning experience for the ever seeking "coping skill". When you find yourself not coping with something that will likely get repeated in a future poker game, you need to tell yourself "I need to learn how to ride this kind of storm". Otherwise it will take from your game.

[cleverpiggy77]

As long as the players are not talking about what cards they have I don't care what they say to each other. It can only help me. I use all the information to my advantage.

I just sit quietly most of the time not giving off any tells or tendencies and I study everyone else.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by guinness

Maybe I'm thinking about a choriso burrito.

Hmmm. I love chorizo especially with eggs and in an omlette. Never thought about making a burritto with it though.

[byline9]

Kind of like having Jamie Gold at your table...

Had a couple guys similar to this playing at my table online the other night, low limit HE...not abrasive jerks, but constantly telling their cards during hands, talking about what they just folded with action still pending, etc...probably both had too much to drink. They were just barely keeping up with the rake for awhile, and eventually one of the guys lost all his buy-in and quit...the other guy was still losing when I quit...

I'd actually rather see guys go on tilt and be obnoxious (messing up their own play), then affecting the entire table with running commentary...

But this is good practice if jerks make you upset, because you have to stay in control and take advantage of the situation if possible...it's kind of like being married, for example.

I wonder if your players were regulars, and the dealer had been previously told to ignore this stuff because of that -- the casino didn't want to run them off (especially if they are loose players -- good for the rake.) Possible?

[xtwalker]

Originally Posted by byline9

I wonder if your players were regulars, and the dealer had been previously told to ignore this stuff because of that -- the casino didn't want to run them off (especially if they are loose players -- good for the rake.) Possible?

The "main offender" is a semi-regular, well known as an A**. He doesn't play near as many hours as me and other player that was complaining about him. I found out after the fact that he had been thrown out the night before for the exact same behavior. He is also very tight and bad for the game.

Like I told one of the dealers that witnessed a bunch of this, I put up with a lot more when playing 5/10 bc it is more profitable to put up with it, but it was just rediculous in this game.

I haven't decided if I was just tired and already irritable or if it really was as bad as I remember it. I almost alway carry a MP3 player, but rarely use it when playing. I had it in all night trying to drown them out yesterday and they were still getting to me.

[byline9]

Originally Posted by xtwalker

The "main offender" is a semi-regular, well known as an A**. He doesn't play near as many hours as me and other player that was complaining about him. I found out after the fact that he had been thrown out the night before for the exact same behavior. He is also very tight and bad for the game.

"Jerkus Commonus" -- habitat: almost any type of group or event. I often wonder why guys like this are around, but there's usually one...not really involved in the event, but knows the most about it...always complaining, not enjoying the activity...

If they threw him out once, then they're definitely watching the guy at this point (I'd guess that they asked for the full recap from the dealers, later on)...when the regulars keep pointing him out (and he's not contributing much to the rake), eventually he'll no longer be welcome there.