[imperial10]

Some 12:46 am reading for you.

I'm not much a specialist in the field of Omaha. I'm going to give hold'em a break. So I checked out some books at the library and watched some wsop Omaha. Played a couple times. Just like how I was when I first started playing hold'em, I learned the game before I go and spend a fortune on it. Been playing for about 1.5 months now so I was wondering is Omaha more skill or drawing game? I got into a heated debate over some "2" year old kid (he's actually 1) about the pot odds and % I had. I felt like I wasted my time. Maybe I have the wrong book, or just have the wrong idea about it. Right now I'm on the loosing end and "no I will not come to your next Omaha event"

I dabbled in hi/low as well. I feel like I'm getting reamed, I guess I don't know what I'm doing. Any help would be appreciated.

[john]

Im guessing that since your starting out you play low stakes. At these stakes people seem to call or push with heaps of drawing hands. If you flop a hand like top two pair but have no draws be very cautious and try to keep the pots small or get out. The ideal hands to push are ones where you have a very strong hand on the flop plus good draws to high end straights or nut flushes. This means you need to be very selective preflop with your hands. If you miss the flop get out. I dont know the percentage of times pocket aces hold up in omaha but it isnt much. I have a basic strategy of wanting 10+ outs to call bets and will bet boards such as 2 pair + flush or straight draws. The biggest losers in omaha are the people who cant fold. Dunno if this is much help and may sound stupid but its the best i can come up with. Playing like this i do turn a slow and steady profit which i think is the best way to roll.

[Riculus]

Putting someone on a hand in TH is do-able and in Omaha it's virtually impossible. It's a little to easy to get busted for my taste. There's a lot of Full houses beating full houses.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Riculus

Putting someone on a hand in TH is do-able and in Omaha it's virtually impossible. It's a little to easy to get busted for my taste. There's a lot of Full houses beating full houses.

Yeah, but FH over FH is also in Omaha not that much a topic.
It's way more important to be able to fold a pretty good hand. If you can't fold AA on a 358 flop or a straight on a drawing or paired board, you might lose a lot of money.

But according to the topic, it is a drawing game, but it needs a lot of skill and math as well.
But it's tough to make constant good results in low limit Omaha, since people use to overplay their hands and get lucky a lotta times.

[Stevo]

I pretty much agree with what John said. Omaha, after the flop is a game of "re-draws" or really, re-drawing to the nuts. It would help to know if you are talking about limit, no limit or pot limit, but I think basically, the idea is the same.

I am not ridiculously selective pre-flop and will typically come in with any 4 decent cards in an unraised pot. Pre-flop raised pots I will sometimes come in on as well, only because a lot of the time the folks I play with raise with less than quality starting hands. This is different in hi/lo where I am much more mindful of starting with a good hand.

After the flop, you really want to have draws to nut hands. In a full table, if the board pairs, someone has made a full house, get out with flush and straight draws. Shoot, I have more to say about this, but I gotta run.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by imperial10

Some 12:46 am reading for you.

I'm not much a specialist in the field of Omaha. I'm going to give hold'em a break. So I checked out some books at the library and watched some wsop Omaha. Played a couple times. Just like how I was when I first started playing hold'em, I learned the game before I go and spend a fortune on it. Been playing for about 1.5 months now so I was wondering is Omaha more skill or drawing game? I got into a heated debate over some "2" year old kid (he's actually 1) about the pot odds and % I had. I felt like I wasted my time. Maybe I have the wrong book, or just have the wrong idea about it. Right now I'm on the loosing end and "no I will not come to your next Omaha event"

I dabbled in hi/low as well. I feel like I'm getting reamed, I guess I don't know what I'm doing. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not sure your question makes sense... but that could be explained by the "12:46am" part. I'm no expert (haven't even read a book on the subject), but here's my take on Omaha.

If you're playing fixed limit, then it's as much (if not more) of a drawing game as any limit poker game... which means, it requires a lot of skill (via mathematics) to do well. That is, you need to "know" (a) if your hand is currently winning, (b) if you have any draws to a winning hand (usually the nuts), (c) if, when you hit your hand, someone else hasn't hit a bigger hand, and (d) what the probability is of it being a split pot (especially true for high/low). Then it's just a matter of calculating pot odds. Often, the case is as simple as "If you don't have the nuts, and your only draws are to non-nuts hands, then fold to any bet."

I'm sure you've read about what defines a good vs. bad starting hand... looking for hands where all your cards are coordinated (double-suited high pair with connectors, etc.). And you want flops that give you a big hand (preferably the nuts) with redraws to even bigger hands in case someone draws out on you.

One of my biggest weaknesses is forgetting to account for split pots... so when I figure out that the pot is giving me 10:1 odds to chase my nut-straight, I forget that a split pot is likely and that I need to divide the pot odds accordingly... Don't fall into the trap of assuming you're going to scoop the pot (even in Omaha high-only).

So "yes, it's a drawing game", and "yes, it's a skill game".

If you're playing pot-limit, then it acquires some of the tactics of NL/PL Hold'em in that you can try to isolate and can bluff, etc.

I personally, I prefer 7-stud (high, low, or high/low). More information. Less possibilities. Don't have to worry about split pots as much... And it's just as much a "drawing game" and just as much a "skill game" - well, except for the river... I hate losing to flushes (and straight-flushes!!!) when my opponent only has 2 suited cards showing!

[joepro]

Super system 2 has a pretty good section on omaha high. A huge factor here is the number of players at your table. At a full table, you absolutely need to have the nuts or be drawing to the nuts to stay in the hand, otherwise you are giving money away. On the flop, top two pair is a decent hand, bottom two pair is basically WORTHLESS, and top and bottom pair, proceed with caution. Like holdem, the flop is where you define your hand. The problem is, the hands that look good in holdem are terrible in omaha high, so you need to learn how to read boards. Always determine in your head what is the nuts, and how your hand fits into the flop.

Like all other poker games, as the number of players decreases, the value of each hand goes up. In other words, you need less of a hand to win the pot. This is extremely difficult to gauge, so I don't recommend playing shorthanded if you are a beginner. Some of the top players in this game (David Benyamine, Patrik Antonius) only play shorthanded, which requires a ton of bluffing.

I played a lot of low money and even play money omaha high and low online, to learn how to play the game. While playing at these levels will not make you an expert player, seeing all the hand scenarios does wonders in improving your board-reading ability. I recommend doing this before you go out to play with the big boys. GL sir.

[byline9]

Omaha is a game of full houses, nut flushes, and some straights. Two pair rarely holds up in a big pot.

But I find a lot of inexperienced players in Omaha donkaments who try to play it just like HE, and do poorly. But a lot of them will get lucky on draws, esp. if you have a loose table -- Omaha is the "Bad Beat" game. So it's easy to get discouraged.

For example, in one hand I played in a tourney recently, 4 of us called on the river. One guy had the nut flush, then I showed a full house, then two other guys showed bigger boats and split the pot. That kind of thing is not so unusual in Omaha.

Everybody's giving you good advice here. Only play starting hands that can improve into a winner. And knowing when to fold when you're drawing dead will save you money. (Draws that COULD be second best often are in Omaha.)

[abby99]

Yes, Omaha is a drawing game, and yes, it requires skill. The preceding comments are great, and I have few points to make that haven't been made already.

Hand selection is key. Every player has six different combinations of 2-card hole cards to play with the board. At a full table of 9 players, you could be up against 48 different hands. Your hole cards should work together. If you play 2 high cards and 2 low cards, especially rainbow, you only have two ways to make a hand, not 6; don't handicap yourself that way. In a way, post-flop Omaha play at a full table is easier than Hold'em because most of the time if you don't flop the nuts or don't have a draw to the nuts, it's an easy fold. Also, keep in mind that the nut straight or flush is probably worthless if the board pairs. At a full table, more often than not, somebody will show down the nuts. In high/low split games, play hands that have a chance to scoop the pot.

When I started out, I played a fair amount of play-money Omaha in order to get a good feel for the game. It's easy to misread a hand; practice helps here, too.

Omaha is a blast! Good luck, and enjoy.

[w16227]

Short answer, yes - definitely a drawing game. Yes - it is a skill game. The skill comes in when you decide HOW to -play your draws.

Important item #1 - do NOT learn to play Omaha from watching WSOP tapes. You do not see enough of the game to grab any real insight. In fact, you might learn some REAL bad habits. Case in point, you will see many overaggressive moves in the tournaments based on the fact that the rising blinds have an affect on play - and even the bad moves sometimes get paid off which makes for good TV.

There are some great books out there for the beginner. SS2 is a good reference, as you get some decent basic Omaha and O8. If you are really interested in O8, Ray Zee has the best introductory book out there - and it also covers Stud8 as well. Farha has a decent one out there as well covering all Omaha variations, including limt/PL/tournament variations.

For more targeted advice, post more specifics (limits, tournament/cash, O87 or high only) and do not try and learn all of the games at once. Choose one (like limit O and start there. Once you build up your board/player reading skills and basic Omaha cards sense, the shifts needed for the variants become easier.

Basic strategies for limit O8 -

The more players in a hand, the stronger your hand needs to be to enter the pot. This is pretty much opposite of a holderm hand - and many people forget it. You want A2 or A3 with drawing options for a high hand. After the flop - if you are not holding the nut or nut draw with multiple redraws, the correct action is probably to fold. Say you have A278 and the flop comes A48. This is not all that great of a flop. You might call one bet hoping to fill up - but if a 3 or 5 hits and there is a lot of action, you are undoubtedly beat and should dump the hand. even if you hit jackpot (the A) on the turn, you are pretty much in a bad place as you will not get paid off that well. Action on the river with a low card hitting =split pot (at best) Action on the river with a high card hitting = might have just been outdrawn.


Basic "stuff" for PLO
Play warp hands and suited aces. Hands like AAxx with 2 broadway suited cards or AAKK double suited are the premium holdings. Low wraps are BAD in low limit games - or at least for inexperienced players. Until you are better at reading hands/players 3456 or 4578 hands really need to be folded preflop. You will get in trouble with these hands. When starting out, you want to limit yourself to playing the higher straight cards so you minimize redraws (until you are better at reading when to fold the lower wrap hands). Playing for any flush other than the nut is BAD. Position and controlling the pot size is MORE important than in HE. I see players in raising wars all of the time on the flop- with only a draw. Why? If someone is going to give you loads of action, them punish them on the turn where you have a much better idea of where you stand (and you can really make a flush draw pay).