[jldecarlo]

When do you make "pot odds" calls from the small blind?

I'm mostly talking cash games, but I suppose we could also talk about the first 1 or 2 levels of a tourney (or when you have a really big stack).

You're sitting in the SB with a lousy hand. There are two (or three, or four) limpers. When do you complete? Is it hand dependent, or based upon stack sizes or your prediciton of the BB's liklihood of raising?

I think I may call too often in this situation, so it may be a leak in my cash game. Opinions?

L

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

When do you make "pot odds" calls from the small blind?

I'm mostly talking cash games, but I suppose we could also talk about the first 1 or 2 levels of a tourney (or when you have a really big stack).

You're sitting in the SB with a lousy hand. There are two (or three, or four) limpers. When do you complete? Is it hand dependent, or based upon stack sizes or your prediciton of the BB's liklihood of raising?

I think I may call too often in this situation, so it may be a leak in my cash game. Opinions?

L

omg i'm working on an article about this now.

[jdunford]

I'll take a stab at this, and then everyone can correct me.

If I'm getting better than 4:1 on my money*, then I call. In fact, I might be a little tight; some people might do it with < 3:1.

* - ... and if am relatively certain the BB won't raise... if he always raises when I limp, then I'm a little more selective and will fold occasionally despite the explicit pot odds.

In a tournament recently, that meant I called with 5s2s, the flop was AAX with 2 spades (including one of the A's), and I ended up eliminating two players that were both obviously playing flopped trip aces -- and from then it was just a matter of getting implied odds to chase my flush (which hit on the turn) and hoping neither of them made a boat.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

omg i'm working on an article about this now.

... and that will be the correction to my post I was talking about!

[hachkc]

Generally in the 4:1 or better though with some cards/players it might be 3:1. Give me 5:1 or better and there isn't much I'd probably fold. That being said, if UTG raises to $25 in 1/2 game, lots of limpers and its gets to me in the SB and I'm getting 5:1 now I may still fold depending on my stack because of the size of the bet, weak implied odds now for a drawing hand now and I'll probably face a big bet on the flop, etc.

[Poboy]

With multiple limpers, I'll complete nearly any two. My only concern is reverse implieds. When you make the call preflop, you should have some expectation of what kind of flop you are looking for.

If there is a raise from the BB, then it gets more complicated. I may fold getting good odds depending on the action back to me based on how difficult my hand, when made, is going to be to play.

[luckychick]

Most people don't play goot enough post-flop to complete with crap from the SB, imo. Good way to trap yourself. In tournies it's a major chip leak. Gotta be pretty deep stacked, which doesn't happen often in tournies. IF you play your crap, you have to make sure that you get paid off enough to make up for all the times you miss - and being OOP it is a bit harder to get value.

Here's my take:
If you call with crappy suited K, Q, or J, make sure that you can lay down one pair, and are good at reading other peoples hands.
Unsuited big-littles are a waste of money.
Connected or semi-connected cards are a little better, if you can get paid off for straights. Disguised straights are more profitable.
Be careful of small two pair getting counterfeited.

[jldecarlo]

Originally Posted by luckychick

Most people don't play goot enough post-flop to complete with crap from the SB, imo.

I'm not really concerned about most people. My concern is that I don't play goot enough post-flop.

When I do play total crap (and when it's 5:1, 7:1 or higher with deep stacks, I think you need to), I don't bite unless I flop two pair or better. Playing top pair when you have 69o is not a good idea, IMO.

L

[dad604]

Originally Posted by luckychick

Most people don't play goot enough post-flop to complete with crap from the SB, imo. Good way to trap yourself. In tournies it's a major chip leak. Gotta be pretty deep stacked, which doesn't happen often in tournies. IF you play your crap, you have to make sure that you get paid off enough to make up for all the times you miss - and being OOP it is a bit harder to get value.

I totally agree. It seems that if I catch part of the flop, I am OOP and have a tough time unless I hit a monster.

[FlopZnuts]

In a cash game I will see a flop with almost anything (especially sooted) with 3 or 4 limpers and I feel I can sneak in from the SB. If I don't hit VERY big draw or made hand and the action gets rough I dump it and wait for the button. But this may be a leak for me too! (Cant wait for JJ's article!)