[xtwalker]

I don't know most players holdings in this hand, but I think I had good reads and can give solid likely holdings. I'm not sure if I made the right plays or not, and I would like to hear any thoughts about it.

Game 3/5 NL $300 buy-in. New Years day crowd and a few inexperienced players and two pros sitting at the table. As you can see from the stacks, there was a fair amount of action, and several re-buys already, even though it was only 3 PM.

Hero SB - $1500
Pro BB - $400
Fish UTG - $300 limp
Pro UTG +1 - $700 raises to $35 (pretty standard open for him)
Inexperienced female -$500 calls (seems passive Pre Flop and very tight post flop)
her Brother - $450 calls (bit of a calling stations. Calls off big bets light)
Button - $900 calls (had about $1400 and seemed determined to give it away)

I have and planned to fold until there were so many calls ahead of me. I felt I could outplay most of the table post flop and thought if I hit a good flop I could get a stack. I call the $32 more.

BB calls.

Flop

I expected a c-bet from the PF raiser so I checked intending to C/R.

BB check

UTG check

UTG +1 cuts out $100, thinks for a minute, cuts it in half and bets $50.
Female player says "What is that $50? Make it $150" (UTG+1 looked like he wanted to muck right there.

her brother calls the $150

Button folds.

At this point, I figured the bettor for JJ or QQ, the raiser for AK, AQ, 77 or 88, and the brother for 78 or 9T. I do not close the action and have both of the pros to my left still to act, but I thought they both had lost interest in the pot.

I raise $500 to $650. The max raise in WA is $500, and it nearly covers all players in the hand.

Is that raise good, bad, or just plain ugly?

Both pros quickly folded, the raiser sat and thought for a minute, asked if I had a set stared for a minute and folded. Her brother did the same thing, asked if I had a set, stared for a minute and made a big drama about folding. Neither one of them had more than $200-250 left after the $150.

I like the results of the hand, taking down ~$500 uncontested, but am wondering how each of us could have played it better.

Please bestow any wisdom you have for me, I will post my thoughts on each street later on.

[Poboy]

nice hand

[ipgyst]

Not much commentary from this n00b, but I like the hand because your backdoor flush is clean to the nuts (ignoring straight flushes) - nobody can fill up if you need to rely on the flush to beat a set. Not that that is a good/bad reason to play the hand or alter the way you would play it, but I think it is interesting (and mostly useless).

[xtwalker]

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't considered the back door flush draw at all. Honestly, I don't think it would really affect my decision here, but it is an interesting point, and maybe consider in certain similar spots.

FWIW, I felt akward about this hand from start to finish.

Pre-flop, I don't like the agressors open. He had too many calling stations behind and he built a huge pot that he obviously wasn't comfortable with.

I'm not a big fan of my PF call, but it is probably debatable and neutrally EV due to implied odds with the stacks involved. I mostly called because of a nearly guaranteed C-bet from the aggressor, and I knew he gives up easily when his C-bets don't work, and I am have a lot more big pot experience than most of these players seem to have, and I felt comfortable making moves on favorable boards.

My check on the flop was probably my only "good" play in the hand. I got the small C-Bet I expected. Betting out $125-150 may have been good, but if anyone raises that bet, they are all in and I don't have that much information.

Betting $50 into that pot was horrible IMO. I would have either checked to the large field or bet $150-200. I am sure he was playing JJ or QQ and was just disgusted by the action it got.

I love the raise to $150, but it was from the last player at the table that I wanted to see it from. This girl had shown almost no aggression in 2 hrs of play. I figured she either had AQ+ or a small set and just wanted to abuse the bettor. I am ahead of half her range, but still dodging cards, the other half of her range has me crushed.

I was seriously considering a fold until her brother called. I knew he didn't smooth call with anything that was ahead of me. At best I gave him credit for 78, 9T, or AT/AJ.

I considered the call dead money, assumed he would call off his last $200, considered that dead money, along with what was in the pot.

I honestly thought I may be behind a set and I would end up gambling for another $200, and I sure as hell didn't want another card to come off cheap.

This is where I ran into the push/fold decision, and obviously went with the push. I still haven't decided if it was the right play given the read on the raiser.

Still interested in thoughts about my line of thinking here. Think I am also going to post on 2+2.

[timsta007]

The critical thing about this hand is the fact that none of the players who expressed any sort of interest in the hand (so basically excluding the pros who both folded) you have everyone completely covered with your 500 bet. Given that and the strength of your hand you really don't have a choice. You are forced to make the re-re-raise here to protect and/or gain value from drawing hands as well as those that are behind. If you are up against a set none of the people in this hand have enough money behind to cause you to fold based on the size of the pot and how each player has invested. Against a set, knuckle the felt, say nice hand, and chalk it up as a cooler, you cannot get away from your two pair, nor is it correct to fold this hand to anyone excluding the two pros with similar stacks to you (more than 150 bb's). Given this, yes the other players did play the hand strangely, as you would figure to get called by someone after both the woman and her brother dropped nearly $200 each already.

Absolutely you like the outcome of the hand taking down a very nice sized pot without contest. You would figure a flush or straight draw would end up with you to the river. Chalk it up to bad play, enjoy the pot, and be glad that neither a big draw or a set didn't call you.

SHIP IT!

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by xtwalker

Pre-flop, I don't like the agressors open. He had too many calling stations behind and he built a huge pot that he obviously wasn't comfortable with.

You don't know what he has. What if had KK, how else do you play it? He was only obviously uncomfortable after the flop. I agree he shouldn't have led at it.

I'm not a big fan of my PF call, but it is probably debatable and neutrally EV due to implied odds with the stacks involved. I mostly called because of a nearly guaranteed C-bet from the aggressor, and I knew he gives up easily when his C-bets don't work, and I am have a lot more big pot experience than most of these players seem to have, and I felt comfortable making moves on favorable boards.

Preflop the call is fine because of odds + fish button, fish brother, and LP preflop, fit or fold sister.

I love the raise to $150, but it was from the last player at the table that I wanted to see it from. This girl had shown almost no aggression in 2 hrs of play. I figured she either had AQ+ or a small set and just wanted to abuse the bettor. I am ahead of half her range, but still dodging cards, the other half of her range has me crushed.

If someone limps/calls a lot, their range is pretty wide. If they are a fit or folder and they raise, it mean they like their hand. It does not mean they understand flop reading, or relative strength. This chick could have 87, A7, AK, KK, QQ, or AQ as well as AA, 77, or 88.

I'd be a little more concerned over the call of the raise. It's not a drawy board, and he's got to a)at least consider a re-raise, and b)have some idea how his sister plays. Still, he sounds like a fish. I don't think it takes me much time to push here.

[xtwalker]

Originally Posted by Poboy

You don't know what he has. What if had KK, how else do you play it?

I would have opened smaller. Obviously, he can't know it would be a 6 or 7 way pot, but since it was the table trend, I wouldn't want a $200+ pot on the flop where you are likely to play $400-500 effective stacks. I like a smaller open, but I will argue for consistency in opening raises to mask hand strength. To me, his open said "I have QQ or KK and am afraid to play after the flop"

Originally Posted by Poboy

If someone limps/calls a lot, their range is pretty wide. If they are a fit or folder and they raise, it mean they like their hand. It does not mean they understand flop reading, or relative strength. This chick could have 87, A7, AK, KK, QQ, or AQ as well as AA, 77, or 88.

I'd be a little more concerned over the call of the raise. It's not a drawy board, and he's got to a)at least consider a re-raise, and b)have some idea how his sister plays. Still, he sounds like a fish. I don't think it takes me much time to push here.

You make some great points about the chicks range. I would count out the big PP's though. I don't think she was that bad to pump the bet like that with a large PP.

The brother had gills... I almost always get scared when I see a big call like that, but this particular guy, I thought he just donated his stack to the holder of a good hand. Still amazed he didn't call the final bet.

Thanks for the feedback.