[Diablo_Rojos]

I'm reading Professional No limit it Hold 'em (Flynn, Mehta, a d Miller for the second time.
I'm going through this time and seriously taking notes. I read it through once
and I thought I was getting it. I actually started playing worse than ever. So I decided to really go through it and make sure I was understanding the concepts correctly and putting them into practice.
Back to basics.
1st Chapter Pot odds. Page 10.
Paraphrasing "...If you a have a $200 pot and $100 left to call then you're getting 2 to 1 on your money. or (33.3%) You are risking $100 to win $200 (ok I get that.)
In the same paragraph it says if you are 4 to 1 or (20%). You should fold.
Hold the phone here. Why would you fold that. It seems to me if you are risking $100 to win $400 you should call. Please explain why I'm wrong.

[hachkc]

Could he mean you are like 4:1 to make your hand like being on a str8 or flush draw which are both roughly 4:1? If so, then the comment makes perfect sense. You are getting 2:1 on your money are 4:1 to make your hand. You usually want though ratios reversed.

[jojobinks]

yeah, hach got it. but to put it another way...you want the price the pot is laying you to be at least as good as your odds of drawing out. if you're 4:1 to make your hand you need 4:1 to break even, and more than that to make the monies.

4:1 is a common scenario, as hach mentioned, b/c it's about your chance of hitting a flush draw (or straight draw) on the turn.

[Diablo_Rojos]

Originally Posted by hachkc

Could he mean you are like 4:1 to make your hand like being on a str8 or flush draw which are both roughly 4:1? If so, then the comment makes perfect sense. You are getting 2:1 on your money are 4:1 to make your hand. You usually want though ratios reversed.

That would be outs to make your hand. Not pot odds. ( yeah I know there both connected I'll get to that later)
The scenario in the book goes like this:
"You have QQ on the button. You're playing a $1-$2 game with a $140 stack. Everyone at the table has you covered. A player in early position make it $10 to go
. Two players call. You re-raise to $40 (ignore the quality of this move). The blinds fold and the first player moves all-in. The in-between players fold. The action is on you Should you call."
Pot the pot is is 203. It's a $100 to call. 2 to 1.
I'm just copying this from the book.

[Diablo_Rojos]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

yeah, hach got it. but to put it another way...you want the price the pot is laying you to be at least as good as your odds of drawing out. if you're 4:1 to make your hand you need 4:1 to break even, and more than that to make the monies.

4:1 is a common scenario, as hach mentioned, b/c it's about your chance of hitting a flush draw (or straight draw) on the turn.

Ok that makes more sense. If you have 4 outs to make your flush, not discounted outs, and your pot odds are 2:1 then you would want to call.
So why would you want to fold if you have say 4 outs to make your flush, and
your pot odds are 4:1?

[scottwire]

Originally Posted by Diablo_Rojos

That would be outs to make your hand. Not pot odds.
The scenario in the book goes like this:
"You have QQ on the button. You're playing a $1-$2 game with a $140 stack. Everyone at the table has you covered. A player in early position make it $10 to go
. Two players call. You re-raise to $40 (ignore the quality of this move). The blinds fold and the first player moves all-in. The in-between players fold. The action is on you Should you call."
Pot the pot is is 203. It's a $100 to call. 2 to 1.
I'm just copying this from the book.

It is just the wording of it that may be confusing.

You ARE GETTING 2 to 1 pot odds
but if you ARE 4 to 1 to win the pot you should fold (odds of your QQ vs AA or KK if you know he has one of those hands)

[scottwire]

Originally Posted by Diablo_Rojos

Ok that makes more sense. If you have 4 outs to make your flush, not discounted outs, and your pot odds are 2:1 then you would want to call.
So why would you want to fold if you have say 4 outs to make your flush, and
your pot odds are 4:1?

4 outs is not the same as 4:1 odds

Let's say you have a flush draw on the flop. 9 cards make your flush. you will make your flush by the river 1 in 3 times. Your odds to make the flush are then 2:1 (2 times miss, 1 time make).

Now If the pot was $300 and you had to call $100, you would be getting 3:1 which is better odds than your 2:1 to hit your flush so you should call

If the pot is $150 and it costs you $100 to call, you would only be getting 1.5 to 1 and you should fold because that is less than the 2:1 odds to make your flush

[Diablo_Rojos]

Originally Posted by scottwire

It is just the wording of it that may be confusing.

You ARE GETTING 2 to 1 pot odds
but if you ARE 4 to 1 to win the pot you should fold (odds of your QQ vs AA or KK if you know he has one of those hands)

Ok I get it. so I'm a big stupid poopy head. I think I completely misread part of the chapter.

[Diablo_Rojos]

Here's the thing I missed "If your chances of winning are 2:1 (33%)"
Their use of this notation I'm not used to. In my line of work 2:1 is a multiplication
factor not a division. I think a better way of notating that is 1 chances in 3. I'll need to change my way of thinking.

[Diablo_Rojos]

Just to solidify my thinking on this. Please correct me if I've gone astray.

keeping things simple:
1/2 NL your effective stack size is 150
You have and OTB
Everyone has you covered. Two limpers call. MP raises to 20 you call along with the blinds the limpers fold. Pot is 84
You have 120 left.
Flop comes
MP bets u all in pot is 204
your pot odds are 204 to 120 or 1.7:1
outs 9 outs 4 times rule = 36%

You should call here.